Right to see unapproved board minutes

FL HOA: What are the rights of a homeowner to view the “unapproved” board minutes? My HOA is refusing to let me see the minutes until they are approved. I am very aware they are in the unapproved status. Can they refuse to let me see these? Can they refuse to let me have a copy? Can they refuse to read them at the meeting before approval?

Last month, upon my request they did let me have a copy of the unapproved minutes. What they did was insert in the minutes the approval of a serious policy decision that was made outside of the meeting. They never discussed this policy at any open meeting, even a couple of board members questioned when it was discussed. I was concerned that this is what was happening and that is why I asked for the “unapproved” minutes and they did give them to me.

Anyway, the minutes were corrected at the meeting and I believe it was because they knew that I had them and would have spoken up as I had already had discussions that the policy was not legal and supported by the CCR or the FL statutes. This has made me extremely concerned as to what they are placing in the minutes that never are discussed or a vote taken at the open board meeting.

This month they are refusing to let me see the unapproved minutes. This president has shown that she wants to insert anything in the minutes without discussion and proper vote and hope it gets approved. They later can then point to the board’s approval as recorded and who remembers what actually happened. I know not nice, that is why I have started to watch my board very carefully. The do not want to read the minutes at the meeting either. So the audience really never knows what they are approving. Anything can be in those minutes.

Tim, I attend all meetings and pay attention to everything. But, if I cannot see the minutes and they do not read the minutes, the can put anything in them and they have shown that that will. Although, I can see the approved minutes, but that is after the fact. Some of board members pay no attention and don't really know what they did two months ago. This board has put a notice of a "rule" in the newsletter which has never been discussed nor voted on in a meeting.

Why would an HOA keep the unofficial minutes?

We dont. Once the minutes are transferred from scrap paper to official minutes, the scrap paper is tossed.

OK there seems to be opinions that draft, unapproved minutes, although already distributed to the board for their review (the secretary has sorted out the notes) may not be part of the official records. Does everyone realize that my board is putting items in the minutes that were never discussed. They just shrug and say minutes were approved, whatever was in there is what is going to happen. They will not read them at the meeting before they vote the approval.

How does everyone interpret the following:
A well know attorney (Poliakoff) that has columns regarding homeowner associations has written the following based on 720.303(4)(l) All other written records of the association not specifically included in the foregoing which are related to the operation of the association.

This is that lawyer’s “opinion.”
…. The question that arises is whether drafts of unapproved meeting minutes are also considered official records. The relevant statutes governing the various types of associations do not specifically refer to “final” or “approved” minutes as being a part of the official records, rather they just refer to “minutes” generally. In other words, no specific distinction is made between drafts of unapproved minutes, and final approved minutes….
… Therefore, it is my opinion that drafts of unapproved minutes, at least once they are circulated by the drafter, are a part of the association’s official records for which members have the right to inspect and copy….

No arguent from me on lawyers, I already know that I can get just the opposite opinion from a lawyer. It is 50/50 with their opinions. Just what the judge says at the end of the day is what really counts. But beside that, does everyone discount this lawyers opinion?

I don't get it why you want these notes soo badly. Yeah, there are items in the official notes that may NOT be covered in the open meetings. So what? Take issue with those once they become official and bring them up at the next meeting. Simple as that.

As President, I was NOT allowed to take or provide meeting notes. It was the Secretaries job. The President can NOT act as Secretary according to our documentation. However, we had no secretary my final year in office because they sold their house and moved. I wasn't able to get a replacement due to other issues...I DID take and was the only one basically taking notes for the HOA although those copies could NOT be considered "Official notes" of the HOA.

Owners are free to take their own notes at meetings. Some places it is even allowed to video tape the meetings. Tape recorders are also often used with some HOA's. The notes of which may be transcribed later by the secretary and other present board members.

You may suggest that maybe you can be part of the loop that takes notes in your HOA and review them together. However, even YOUR notes won't be official HOA minutes. Which by the way...IF your taking notes at your HOA meetings are you willing to share your unofficial hand scratched messages with them to? It works BOTH ways...

Next meeting make a motion to strike blah & blah from the minutes of the last meeting. Blah & blah was never discussed but included in the minutes which is false and should be discussed at this meeting or a later date.

Bruce, you are correct, I cannot make a motion at a board meeting. I can make a suggestion, I am allowed per State statute to speak to an agenda item, and yes I can be ignored. I would like to make my suggestion to the board before and avoid any displeasing discussion at a public meeting. I do not want to jump up-&-down at a public meeting trying to embarrass the board. But, I am trying to keep them honest.

I don't think there's any disagreement between us.

Minutes are not read at every one of our board meetings either. Typically, they are prepared by the secretary and included with the meeting agenda and other items that make up the meeting package that is dent to the board members by the PM prior to each board meeting. Meeting packages are available at the door for those homeowners who attend the board meeting. When the president calls for the reading of the minutes the secretary moves "that the reading of the minutes be waived since the minutes of the last meeting have previously been distributed to all the board members." The president then asks if there are any objections, and hearing none will ask if there are any corrections to the minutes. We do it this way to save time.

I agree, simply ignoring Brenda is not a good idea, but then again, doing what Brenda is claiming they are doing (iserting items in the minutes that never happened at a meeting) is not a good idea either.

I agree, simply ignoring Brenda is not a good idea, but then again, doing what Brenda is claiming they are doing (inserting items in the minutes that never happened at a meeting) is not a good idea either. [Bruce]

Bruce,
I hear you. But, Brenda asked if unapproved minutes are ‘official records’ and if she has the right to see them. I do not think 'unapproved minutes' are official records. Well, what do you think? Under current FL law there is well-defined procedure to request only ‘official records’ of the association. The Board has 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access...

I would like to make my suggestion to the board before and avoid any displeasing discussion at a public meeting. I do not want to jump up-&-down at a public meeting trying to embarrass the board. But, I am trying to keep them honest. [Brenda]

Brenda, there is no need ‘to jump up-&- down at any meeting’. If a member can prove the board is not honest there may be another way to resolve that issue; imposing special ‘conditions’ on the board is certainly not one of them. Hope you agree.