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BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
We have had major trouble with our board. Two of the board members have been on since 2002 without elections held. We had our first HOA meeting in 5 years this past Monday and to the surprise of these board members they were voted out. When the meeting was over they walked out and took all docs with them and refused to hand them over. I am now on the board and our main concern is our bank account. It was setup in an assumed name by the president and he has told the attorney that he wouldn't give docs or sign over anything.. What do we do? No money to follow through with a lawsuit.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
If they were voted out by their neighbors, can you shame them into cooperation by getting a number of the homeowners to write letters, make phone calls, or send e-mails to the uncooperative former board members?

Unless you can get some sort of voluntary compliance you will have to retain a lawyer and force them to give up control.
BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I don't think these people will care. A majority of the members were there and saw what happened. I think it will have to be a legal issue myself.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Tell the homeowners that the cost of any legal action will have to be split among the members, but if there is an amicable settlement it won't cost anything. Give them an estimate of the expected assessment per member. That will get people interested.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Let things cool down for a while and see what happens. Their feelings were hurt.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Brian,

I suspect that their is more to this story as any bank account that is not setup using the Associations name and Tax ID number is an indication of much larger issues.

However, with the expectation that the new directors were properly elected, contact the Association attorney (usually the registered agent, the bank and all vendors that you are aware of that the following people are the duly elected board. Any agreements or obligations (legal) made after the date of election will be the sole responsibility of those individuals.

This will probably get the lawyers attention.

Keep the letter simple and factual as you are just providing notice.

Something like:

Dear Sir,

On mm/dd/yyyy the [name of Association] held elections for new Directors. The following individuals were properly elected and are now serving on the Board of Directors:

Name - President
Address
Phone
Name - VP
Address
Phone
Name - Secretary
Address
Phone
Name - Treasurer
Address
Phone
Name - Director
Address
Phone
Name - Director

Please Direct all future business to these individuals. Previous Directors no longer have the authority to represent the Association.

(for the Attorney add) Any obligations made by past Directors after mm/dd/yyyy are to be considered personal obligations of that individual.

Two days after you send those letters, you should send a copy to each past director via certified mail and the cover letter should include a specific date that all Association materials are to be turned over.

Tim
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
A legal HOA should be registered as a non-profit organization and follow the meetings protocol, keeping of minutes, etc.

That said, the process will officially note the change in leadership whether board members grab pieces of paper and leave or not.

At worst, the HOA dues payers subsidize the cost of the attorney to threaten the old board members into cooperation. But, that's so expensive, heavy-handed and punitive. The irony is that if the new board must follow legal steps maintain HOA business continuity, it strengthens the claim that the old leadership needed removing. HOA board members, no matter how angry, should EVER hurt their dues payers with "mess" like this.

BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
One of our problems is that it was not setup as a nonprofit. We are taking steps now to make it so. None of the old board members keep any records of the meeting... there was no protocol and no minutes keep. The only thing I have is a digital recorder I brought to record the meeting.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
A legal HOA should be registered as a non-profit organization


Registered as a not-for-profit, not a "nonprofit" Its a big difference.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Brian,

I just re-read your intial post about how your ex-president told "the attorney" he'd not be handing over documents.

"The Attorney" is your attorney, now, if dues payers funded the attorney's services. That's your first step as well as an initial step in making sure your HOA is on sound footing. "The Attorney" represents the HOA and not an individual board member.

This one should be easy. Even if documents are presented by the board president, the banks, etc, can assist you if you choose to put in the time.

Work the process, don't shame people, and you'll be fine w/ time, patience and many hours of free labor on your part. At least your neighborhood has you worried about the organization as a whole rather than "getting at" some old board member. Who's to say that board possesses any HOA documents to speak of? That may be the reason he won't turn them over.

But, start with a phone call to "The Attorney" and learn who he represents. I'm betting your dues is paying he or she and not the president's personal funds.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Don't discount the usefulness of shame. You may call it "appealing to one's better nature" but it comes down to making people realize the pettiness or immaturity of their actions, and then changing their behavior voluntarily.

Sometimes people can't see the true nature of their actions without having it shown to them through the eyes of their peers.
BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
We are going to send letters out to all of the members to inform them on what's happening. I think this is going to have to be a legal issue in the end. The previous board just lost it when they were voted out... They were yelling at the members and saying that the new boards was going to ruin property values and needed background checks. It went crazy at the end. My other question is if we have to go the legal route is this civil court or district court?
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianF9 on 07/27/2011 2:11 PM
is this civil court or district court?

My sympathies go out to you and your fellow new board members. It's too bad you have to put up with this.

I would expect that it will be neither civil court nor district court. As soon as you get your lawyer to send a letter on his stationery, the problem will disappear.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrianF9 on 07/27/2011 2:11 PM
if we have to go the legal route is this civil court or district court?

Brian,

If you have to go the legal route, your lawyer will file in the proper court having jurisdiction in this matter. Leave it up to your lawyer. That's what lawyers get paid the big bucks for.
BevM (Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
It sounds like nothing has been done legally for several years. I agree with TimB4 on the suggested steps to take to get the ball rolling in the right direction.
The first thing to do is to get your associations attorney in the loop and tell him/her what the prior board members have done and seek to recover any and all documents they have taken. Also, get with the bank as suggested and have your officers sign signature cards and what ever else needs to be done to gain control of the money. How are bills being paid right now!?!?!?!

Once you have solutions being worked out on these things that need immediate attention, get educated. Bet you didn't want to hear that one! But, it is the only way you can empower yourself and fellow board members in what is the legal and moral thing to do. I have looked up some reference materials that you might find useful regarding HOA's in Texas; Go to this website, download these Texas statutes and get to reading!

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=PR
Suggested reading Chapter 201-210 of Title 11. Restrictive Covenants

Also, you must have Restrictive covenants, by-laws, and rules and regulations, for the HOA of which you are a member, that have been formed by the HOA in the past.
I would imagine that they were given to you when you purchased your home and became a member of the HOA. They are often overlooked or misunderstood as not important when you are caught up in the busyness of moving into a new home. Find them, read them, as they are your governing documents for the Business of the HOA board.

Who looks after the common property on a day to day basis, pays the bills, makes sure trash is picked up, etc? Do you have a property manager and staff on the payroll, a Management Company, or are all common elements cared for by volunteers? I am just curious as to how bills are being paid. If the previous board members are still handling the checkbook, they are doing so illegally. Now somewhere I read they were "Voted off" Were they really "Voted off" or were they simply not re-elected? If they were "Voted off" I hope for your sake that all state requirements were met to have them removed by a vote of the membership. If not, they have not been legally removed, and guess what, they are still board members!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
What do you want to bet the "removal" was not done properly?

More info is needed.

Where in your documents does it talk about removal of board members?

If it was done properly, take the minutes of the meeting to the bank and open a new account.

BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The HOA has not been ran properly ever. There were no official minutes recorded at the meeting but like I said before I recorded the meeting and have wrote the minutes from that. The problem with the bank accounts.. 1 it was not setup properly and 2 the bank requires the minutes with the signers of the account to sign off on the minutes. The old board members were not re-elected. I spoke wrong when I said they were voted off. We are opening a new account to run the HOA from here on out. We are a small HOA And all the houses are on a county road so we have nothing to maintain or vendors to pay. Its mostly just to help keep people from building huge shops or running mechanic shops out of there house(which our president has done for 9 years). All the info has been great and I'm on here to learn from people who I hope know more than myself and can give me knowledge on these matters so in the future we dont have these problems again.
BrianF9 (Texas)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The HOA has not been ran properly ever. There were no official minutes recorded at the meeting but like I said before I recorded the meeting and have wrote the minutes from that. The problem with the bank accounts.. 1 it was not setup properly and 2 the bank requires the minutes with the signers of the account to sign off on the minutes. The old board members were not re-elected. I spoke wrong when I said they were voted off. We are opening a new account to run the HOA from here on out. We are a small HOA And all the houses are on a county road so we have nothing to maintain or vendors to pay. Its mostly just to help keep people from building huge shops or running mechanic shops out of there house(which our president has done for 9 years). All the info has been great and I'm on here to learn from people who I hope know more than myself and can give me knowledge on these matters so in the future we dont have these problems again.
BevM (Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
Hi BrianF9

Okay, (We are a small HOA And all the houses are on a county road so we have nothing to maintain or vendors to pay.)
So, since there are no bills to pay, are you collecting annual membership fees or dues? If so, where does a member send their payments for these fees? Somebody must be paying something if there is a bank account to be concerned about. What is the money in the bank account used for?

I assume that it is in your rules and regs. or by-laws that there shall be no businesses run out of a private home, and you say that the president has done so for 9 years. Do you have provisions in your governing documents that allow the board to enforce the rules and collect fines for non-compliance? If you do, I would begin the process according to what your governing docs. say. Chances are, you will have to send written notice of non-compliance to the member with a deadline to comply. If at the deadline they have not complied, send them 2nd notice of non-compliance, offering them an opportunity for a hearing, and so on until the process of due-process has been exhasusted. If they still do not comply, start fineing them according to your Governing Docs. Here in our HOA it is $10.00/day. Also, does the county have zoning rules regarding businesses in your area? Is it zoned strictly for residential purposes by the county? That could be an issue, and you may want to consider calling the county in if there have been zoning ordinances that have been ignored by the homeowner!

(There were no official minutes recorded at the meeting but like I said before I recorded the meeting and have wrote the minutes from that.)
I would check your state statutes to see if it is required by law that all meetings of the Board of Directors or Meetings of the Members must have minutes. I suspect it is a state statute,as there has to be someway to record the actions of the Board, and the votes of the members.

Also, Who gets the bank statements? Are the bank accounts attached to someone's name? Are they interest bearing accounts? If they are interest bearing accounts, it indicates to me that taxes have to be paid on the earned interest.

Does the HOA have a lawyer?

BevM (Virginia)
Posts: 34
Posted:
PLEASE! PLEASE! Download and Read

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/?link=PR

Suggested reading Chapter 201-210 of Title 11. Restrictive Covenants ( It is a lot of reading but if you are truely dedicated you will find yourself absorbed by it!!!)

Download and then anytime you have a question you can do a word search and have the information at your finger tips. I would also suggest getting a copy of your by-laws, restrictive covenants etc, scan them into your computer so you can do a word search and have the info readily available.

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