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BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
well, after a 4 year hiatus I am back on my board and have a mess:

1. Reviewing past bank statements has led the new board to believe there has been some usage of association money for personal uses. What would be the first step in this situation?

2. The outgoing treasurer told me that in the state of Kansas HOA's can no longer charge initiation fees upon the sale of a home. I have found no documentation to verify that, does anyone have any insight?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
1. Ooops, the BOD ought to appoint independent Financial Review Committee to check the books. Another option is to hire a public accountant or do an audit which is however quite expensive.
2. Is there anything in the Kansas House Bill 2472?
JohnM48 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 89
Posted:
1. Since the board now suspects some financial impropriety, you owe it to yourselves and the association to conduct a full audit of your books. If you have someone on the board with auditing experience - great, if not you'll have to consider hiring an outside accounting firm or forming a committee. Even if you have an experienced accountant / auditor / etc on the board, you'll need to weigh the possibility that the membership will perceive a conflict of interest vs. the cost of an outside firm. If you suspect the improprieties are egregious enough to warrant prosecution of the offenders, you'll should consider the benefits an outsider auditor may bring to your potential case.

The audit should intend to accomplish a couple of things:

(a) determine if and in what amount any improprieties exist, and the nature of them so as to decide upon the next step (if any).
(b) identify where the failures occurred which allowed the improprieties in the first place, and devise a means to prevent them in the future.
(c) consider all accounting / bookkeeping / financial procedures to ensure the proper "checks and balances" are in place.

2. I can't speak to Kansas law, sorry.

Association President
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
thanks...the dollar amount in question ranges from around $1,400 - $2,000. Once we get control of everything and all the documents will proceed. The failure occured from an inactive board and basically just the treasurer doing anything.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Last year we got the following quotes based on an annual budget of about $300K:
Certified audit $8K
Financial review $2.4K
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
There is nothing in Bill 2472 that I could find on it. I tried numerous google searches as well
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Thanks, our annual budget is about 22k
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Is the initiation fee authorized by your documents? If not, this may be what the ex-Treasurer is referring to?
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
It is authorized by our docs, I really don't know what he is referring to
RichardW6 (Maine)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Brad,

I'm the President of our HOA, which is also located in Kansas, and last year we dealt with the legality of continuing to charge the buyer an "initiation fee" upon the sale of a home. The prohibition your outgoing treasurer is referring to is from Kansas HB2092, "AN ACT relating to real property; prohibiting certain transfer fee covenants;" and it was adopted in March 2009. HB2472 is not applicable in this case.

In the beginning section of HB2092, it states:

"Section 1. (a) As used in this act:
(1) "Transfer" means the sale, gift, conveyance, assignment inheritance or other transfer of an ownership interest in real property located in this state;
(2) "transfer fee" means a fee or charge payable upon the transfer of an interest in real property or payable for the right to make or accept such transfer, regardless of whether the fee or charge is a fixed amount or is determined as a percentage of the value of the property, the purchase price or other consideration given for the transfer. The following SHALL NOT BE CONSIDERED a "transfer fee" for the purposes of this act:"

....

"(G) any tax, fee, charge, assessment, fine or other amount payable to a HOMEOWNERS', condominium, cooperative, mobile home or PROPERTY OWNERS' ASSOCIATION pursuant to a DECLARATION or COVENANT or law applicable to such association;"

Therefore, the restrictions of Kansas HB2092 expressly DO NOT APPLY to any and all fees and assessments levied by an HOA, including those fees levied upon the sale of a home. This position is fully supported by our attorneys. We have always charged a significant initiation fee to our home buyers, and we continue to do so. A PDF copy of this bill is attached.

I believe your outgoing treasurer is misinformed.

πŸ“Ž Attachments (1):

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πŸ“„172643374371.pdf(24 KB)
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
thanks Richard, that is what i need.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I just wanted to add before it is assumed that board members were using the funds for personal use, keep in mind there will be checks written in their names. This doesn't indicate it was for personal use. It means they are getting reimbursed for expenses. Find out if they were approved for those expenses prior to jumping the gun on assuming private checks mean private funds.

If there are credit card payments receipts this also falls into the gray area. A board member may put something on their credit card and then get a check from the HOA to pay them back. However, when they submit these receipts some personal items may appear on those receipts but not count as items they are requesting pay back for.

I've seen it where people have thrown a fit when they view a submitted receipt for a cleaning item a board member has submitted for use on the HOA property. However, they also purchased other items for their own home at the same time. So people view the entire receipt and go off on a whole "Board member taking advantage" rage. When in actuality they may just be submitting the one item but it was busy at the store to separate the item from all their other items.

So be careful before accusing some of mishandling of funds. It's not always what it appears...

Former HOA President
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Melissa has a point. What may appear as personal expenses may be reimbursement to a board member for HOA expenses. Hopefully, there will be a paper trail. The expense should be authorized (hopefully, it's in the minutes) and backed up by receipts. Whenever I used my own money I tried to make the purchase separately so that my personal expenses were not on the receipt. When that was not done, I would mark on the receipt which items were for the HOA (or other organization). I always made a copy of any receipts, turned in the original with a brief explanation, and kept a copy of what I submitted in the event there was ever a question.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
no one is jumping the gun on anything yet, however, 4 different charges to T-Mobile when the association does not have a cell phone raises a red flag. Also, a very large (several hundred dollars) purchase to Sam's Club when the association was dormat raises a red flag. Before any accussations are made we will collect as much information as we can and will also give the person an opportunity to explain or produce receipts. Trust me, we want to believe everything is on the up and up.
BradT2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Richard,

Can you elaborate, or share a doc regarding your initiation fees? I'm a new Board member and wanting to investigate ways to bring new funds into our association.

Anything you can provide would be most appreicated.

PS - Actually, anybody can feel free to jump in (grin)
RichardW6 (Maine)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Brad,

The only thing we have in our Covenants that mandates the payment of an initiation fee by a new homeowner is a short paragraph:

"Basis and Operating Fund: All general assessments shall be made against each Owner on an equal basis for each lot or fraction thereof owned by the Owner or Owners. Each new Owner shall pay an original charge of Fifteen-Hundred Dollars ($1500.00) to the Association to be used as an operating fund for the Association."

The last sentence probably could be improved, but it's what the attorney prepared when the Covenants were filed 15 years ago and he hasn't found a reason since then to change it.

PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Here is the language used by one HOA in Georgia:

'Initiation Fee. Upon the conveyance of ownership of a Unit, including all resales, an initiation fee shall become due and payable to the Association by each new Owner. The amount of the initiation fee shall be Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), to be paid immediately upon the conveyance of ownership. The Board may periodically adjust the amount of the initiation fee. Such adjustments shall not exceed ten (10) percent annually.

The initiation fee shall not be deemed to be an advance payment of any assessment and may not be paid in lieu of any assessment. The initiation fee shall be the personal obligation of the new Owner and shall constitute a lien against the Unit.

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein, no initiation fee shall be due as the result of a conveyance of a Unit to an Owner’s spouse, child, or a corporation, partnership, company or legal entity in which the Owner is a principal. No initiation fee shall be due from any Person who takes title through foreclosure upon the lien of any priority mortgage covering the Unit.'
BradT2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thank you so much...you all ROCK!
RichardW6 (Maine)
Posts: 13
Posted:
To BradP (Kansas):

Brad, last July you asked whether initiation fees can still be collected from new homeowners in light of Kansas HB2092, which was signed into law in 2009. That bill prohibits "transfer fees" or those charges payable upon the transfer of an interest in real property. (For your reference, the bill has been codified as KSA 58-3821 and KSA 58-3822, both of which are available here:

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_58/Article_38/58-3821.html
http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_58/Article_38/58-3822.html

When you originally asked the question, I reported what I had been told by our MC's attorney as well as others: initiation fees payable to an HOA are not covered under this law. However, last week I met with an attorney who specializes in HOAs and she told me that HOA initiation fees ARE COVERED under this law and subsequently they are now banned. This attorney has since instructed all her HOA clients (20+) to stop collecting the initiation fee. Her interpretation doesn't square with how I read the law.

In KSA 58-3821, paragraph (2), it states:

"transfer fee means a fee or charge payable upon the transfer of an interest in real property or payable for the right to make or accept such transfer, regardless of whether the fee or charge is a fixed amount or is determined as a percentage of the value of the property, the purchase price or other consideration given for the transfer. The following shall not be considered a "transfer fee" for the purposes of this section:"

Then in sub-paragraph (2)(G), it states:

"any tax, fee, charge, assessment, fine or other amount payable to a homeowners', condominium, cooperative, mobile home or property owners' association pursuant to a declaration or covenant or law applicable to such association;"

My interpretation of the statute is that HOA initiation fees are not applicable to this law, but she argues that any initiation fee specified in the covenants is a "transfer fee covenant" and therefore is covered under this law. So, I have two attorneys giving me conflicting opinions!

Have you gathered any additional input from your attorney on how to properly read this law?

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PetunkaM on 07/26/2011 8:10 AM
Last year we got the following quotes based on an annual budget of about $300K:
Certified audit $8K
Financial review $2.4K

Wow! Either you were being hosed or we are getting a real bargain. Our HOA audit for 2010 cost $6,700. Our annual operating budget is $2.3M You need to get some more quotes.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Richard:

I have not but have a pile of stuff at our attorney getting reviewed now, will bring this up.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
David,
The reason the quotes were so high is that no one wants to do it for small HOAs in our area. We called about 5 CPAs and got only one quote. Our community really does not need certified audits; was just curious as to the cost so we could present the choices to the membership.

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