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DS (Washington)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Many of us recently got a letter with a picture of one of the neighbors exposing themselves. The photo was taken from inside the dwelling and the owner was exhibiting from their window, so no inappropriate body parts were visible in the photo but would have been visible from the street. The intent of the letter was to turn neighbors against the owner. The intent can be ignored, but my question is this: is such action, the exposure, any business of the BOD? And if so, what should they do?

I feel the owner just wasn't thinking but was having fun by showing off to somebody they knew. I think it might be a good idea if was pointed out to the owner that it was not a good thing to have done and ask that they please not do it again. Since it affects the entire neighborhood, shouldn't the BOD be the ones to gently and politely speak to the owner?
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
It sounds like nothing noteworthy has happened yet. Just a picture that may posibly indicate some improper act.

Unless there is a clause in your governing documents that covers indecent exposure, then it's not the business of the HOA board.

If you have a neighborhood watch they can be made aware of the situation and can monitor the situation. If something of significance happens, they can report it to the local police.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Should the owner decide to sue, your association could be potentially liable because the Board did go way out to embarrass him/her.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I had a similar incident with our HOA. A member had exposed himself at the pool. She called the police and made a report. I was there at the time and had observed his behavior but did not witness the exposure. The police, the victim, and I had a discussion about it. However, at that time I did not know where his exact house was. So the police couldn't pursue the case but left it open. Over time he continued his behavior by routinely exposing himself through the windows of his home. A few residents saw it. He had also attempted to physically touch me inappropriately. Which was a very bad idea...

Since there is a fine line between indescent exposure and breaking the law, it was hard to enforce anything onto to this man. He was married and even a boy scout leader!!! What I did instead is to warn the people who went to the pool NOT to let anybody alone with him. I didn't know his name but I would let the "regulars" at the pool know who he was when he was there. If I saw him at the pool I would let the ladies know on the "downlow" to be careful of this man. He was and still is a suspected sexual predator.

I don't think it was right for someone to send out pictures of this person. However, I do believe as a single woman or for those who have kids, awareness of this deviant behavior should be exposed. (No pun intended). I don't think the HOA was acting out of aggression but more of awareness. Seems you may be the one taking it as an act of aggression as many would take it as something I would be concerned about being around this person.

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 07/24/2011 11:18 AM

Unless there is a clause in your governing documents that covers indecent exposure, then it's not the business of the HOA board.


Lawrence hit the nail on the head, unless covered in documents the HOA should not get involved. It is then a police matter and the neighbors who are offended should notify the police and report indecent exposure.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I re-read your post. A person doesn't just arbitrarily expose themselves to somebody even as a joke among neighbors. This sounds like a recurring situation where the person being exposed to finally took pictures of it. You don't just have a camera sitting around and waiting for someone to walk in front of their window at a specific time to take their picture. You would have to know this is a routine and has happened before.

Like I said, this sounds like not a vendetta situation as much as an illegal one. Exposing yourself is just dumb stupid thing to do. Seen it too many times on the internet as well. It's NOT funny then either. I say there is more to this than a "joke" gone to far. It borders seriously on illegal..

Former HOA President
DS (Washington)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Clarification: the letter with the photo was not sent by the HOA but by an individual.

Not all adults are mature, and the only way any of us learn is by being told what is proper. That is what I am asking if the BOD should do. No harrassment, just a polite, respectful request that they not do it again. The bare behavior, I mean.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DS on 07/24/2011 4:42 PM
Clarification: the letter with the photo was not sent by the HOA but by an individual.

Not all adults are mature, and the only way any of us learn is by being told what is proper. That is what I am asking if the BOD should do. No harrassment, just a polite, respectful request that they not do it again. The bare behavior, I mean.


Again, No ... not unless covered in governing documents (which I would be willing to bet is not an issue in the documents). It is a police matter and anyone offended can place a complaint. If BOD gets involved there is chance something can come back to them as a liability issue because homeowners will feel the BOD should handle when it is not their responsibility. Board is a neutral party only responsible for items contained in the governing documents, they are not legally HOA police for items outside their scope of duties.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
DS,

Just when I think I've heard of everything, something weird like this pops up.

For starters, I'm pretty certain your CCRs don't have anything to say about indecent exposure or about people taking pictures of someone committing such an act. Therefore, my opinion is that, officially, there is nothing the board can or should do. Unofficially, anyone could remind the homeowner that committed the indecent exposure that such behavior is immature and inappropriate, and anyone could remind the person who sent the email with the photo that their action could result in THEM getting sued. Just a word to the wise.

I believe the "indecent exposure" incident is a matter for the authorities, ie., the police, to handle. As far as sending the email with the photo, IMO that's a civil matter between the person committing the act and the person sending the email and photo. It's really out of your hands.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
So they were pointing the camera into someones windows and got a photo of them naked?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/24/2011 7:14 PM
So they were pointing the camera into someones windows and got a photo of them naked?

It sure sounds that way, doesn't it?

That's why I think it'e either a matter for the authorities or a civil matter between the two parties.

The person whose picture was taken could sue the person who took and published the picture (sent it to the neighbors) for publishing the image without permission. Whether that person could sue for invasion of privacy might depend on where the camera was and whether or not the individual committing the "indecent exposure" was doing it intentionally or not. If it was intentional, then it may have been a criminal act and is a matter for the authorities.

Somebody's got some 'splainin' to do.
JohnM48 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Depending on how "indecent" the exposure was as shown in the picture, mailing it could certainly be a criminal act and one involving the US Mail.

Association President
SrvN1 (Maryland)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 07/25/2011 3:30 AM
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/24/2011 7:14 PM
So they were pointing the camera into someones windows and got a photo of them naked?

It sure sounds that way, doesn't it?

That's why I think it'e either a matter for the authorities or a civil matter between the two parties.

The person whose picture was taken could sue the person who took and published the picture (sent it to the neighbors) for publishing the image without permission. Whether that person could sue for invasion of privacy might depend on where the camera was and whether or not the individual committing the "indecent exposure" was doing it intentionally or not. If it was intentional, then it may have been a criminal act and is a matter for the authorities.

Somebody's got some 'splainin' to do.

This was addressed on another thread - but the homeowner "exposing" themselves will have the hardest time suing for invasion of privacy due to the fact that said homeowner didn't take the proper precautions ensure that shades were totally drawn and the picture was taken on public/common area.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
This was addressed on another thread - but the homeowner "exposing" themselves will have the hardest time suing for invasion of privacy


Invasion of privacy covers many things, such as: Intrusion into the seclusion or solitude of persons and Public Disclosure of Private Facts. This covers taking pictures of someone through windows in a home or other private place and is classified as an intrusion.
SrvN1 (Maryland)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/25/2011 11:25 AM
This was addressed on another thread - but the homeowner "exposing" themselves will have the hardest time suing for invasion of privacy


... This covers taking pictures of someone through windows in a home or other private place and is classified as an intrusion.

Not applicable if the picture was taken from the street/sidewalk/common-area/designated public place - if you leave the blinds/curtain/shades open.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Not applicable


I'll let the judge or jury decide.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
Interesting discussion. We've just recently gone through a similar situation here in my community. Just a few things to think about:

1) In general, if an act is defined as criminal where your community is located, it is also against the CC&Rs. Not every criminal act has to be spelled out in your governing documents in order for a violation to have occurred that warrants Association action. Somewhere in your CC&Rs, you will likely come across a general prohibition against any act that takes place in either a unit or in the common area that deprives any other homeowner of "quiet enjoyment" of his or her home. That means that the Association is well within its rights and obligations to fine a homeowner who is caught doing anything that fails that test, including indecent exposure.

2) That said, whatever action the Association takes is a civil matter, whereas the act of deliberate indecent exposure is more than likely a criminal act, which means the police need to be called first.

3) Whether or not the Association takes action after the police actually arrest the perpetrator, is a matter for the Association attorney to advise the BOD about.

Lots of fun, though, isn't it?

Rob
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SrvN1 on 07/25/2011 10:53 AM but the homeowner "exposing" themselves will have the hardest time suing for invasion of privacy due to the fact that said homeowner didn't take the proper precautions ensure that shades were totally drawn and the picture was taken on public/common area.

That's essentially what I said.
SrvN1 (Maryland)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/25/2011 12:42 PM
Not applicable


I'll let the judge or jury decide.

That's fine - but know your rights.
SrvN1 (Maryland)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceF1 on 07/25/2011 2:08 PM
Posted By SrvN1 on 07/25/2011 10:53 AM but the homeowner "exposing" themselves will have the hardest time suing for invasion of privacy due to the fact that said homeowner didn't take the proper precautions ensure that shades were totally drawn and the picture was taken on public/common area.

That's essentially what I said.

and 100% true

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