HOA knowingly approves an illegal action

Started by HankL3 • 10 replies • 2260 views

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HankL3 (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

A few months ago it was brought to our attention that driving the golf carts in our community and crossing major roadways with them was in violation of both Florida State law and our county law. Our board has been exploring what actions to take to correct the situation, but not in a hurry to do anything about it. While the legal correction is to sell the Golf Carts and buy LSP's, they don't want to do it because it costs more money than a golf cart. That would make us 100% compliant across the board.

Tonight in the board meeting, the board voted 7 - 2 in favor of buying another golf cart for a new employee knowing it was illegal. One board member strongly apposed and stated that it was illegal, and unlike the previous golf carts, we now know it is illegal and are voting to break the law. The board ignored the warnings and voted for it anyway, siting that they had been doing it for 30 years, so what's the big deal.

My question is this: what implications can an act like that bring on our community and the board? If the golf cart gets involved in an accident with a car while illegally crossing the road, what can happen to us, especially if the employee driving the golf cart is driving it on a suspended license? And what if they hit someone causing injury while driving the golf cart on the sidewalk to get from the maintenance cage to the neighborhood? My final question; was that vote a legal vote knowing they were breaking the law?

I appreciate any help you can provide. I am very disappointed with those members who voted for it, and I am concerned of what could happen to our wonderful neighborhood. BTW, I was the board member who vehemently opposed this vocally, and 1 of the 2 votes voting against it.

Thanks,

HankL3

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

The HOA's rules don't supercede the states or counties. I would say if there were any accidents or misuse of the golf carts that would be up to the local police to handle. They are the ones to enforce that law not the HOA. Although if an accident/misuse situation were to occur you can bet your bottom dollar that person who got caught is going to try to make it the HOA's responsibility. So I would take the approach more about preventing someone from coming back to the HOA for their actions than worrying if they purchase more of those items.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:37 PM

My question is this: what implications can an act like that bring on our community and the board?

Buying and owning a golf cart is not illegal. How the individual uses the golf cart might be.

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:37 PM

If the golf cart gets involved in an accident with a car while illegally crossing the road, what can happen to us,

If the Board requires the individual to use the golf cart illegally, they might be liable.

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:37 PM

especially if the employee driving the golf cart is driving it on a suspended license?

If driving is part of his job, that individual should seek a waiver to the suspension for work purposes. If the waiver is not granted and the individual can no longer perform the work, then they should be given work that they are allowed to do or fired.

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:37 PM

And what if they hit someone causing injury while driving the golf cart on the sidewalk to get from the maintenance cage to the neighborhood?

The Association may or may not be considered negligent. This would depend on a court of law.

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:37 PM

My final question; was that vote a legal vote knowing they were breaking the law?

Expecting that there was a quorum and that everyone who was allowed to vote was given the opportunity to vote, then the vote was legal. The decision on how to cast a vote might not have been a smart one but that happens in politics also.

Tim

HankL3 (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I agree, all we can do is tighten the laws, not supersede them. The road they cross illegally is a dangerous road to cross. The driving is way over the posted speed limit, illegal passing in bus zones, etc. It's just a matter of time before someone gets hurt. Additionally, they have to ride on a busy sidewalk to get from the maintenance compound to the neighborhood a few times a day. I have seen many close calls, it's just a matter of time.

I want to make sure that the board members who voted for it are aware of what they just put us in front of, and what the possible implications could turn out to be.

Also, was their vote a legal vote? Can it be challenged by myself as an illegal vote?

Thanks again.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

If the board acted with the knowledge that they may be violating the law, it is possible that their D&O insurance won't cover them if legal action results. The Association and the individual board members will be on their own in providing for their defense and for paying any judgement that may result. The way out of this is to seek legal advice from an attorney before making the decision.

No one can be forced to break the law; that is, an employee cannot be required to break the law. Although an employer may fire an employee for refusing to do a specific action, being fired for refusing to break the law may be grounds for a wrongful termination suit.

I hope it is on record that you voted no. Judges have been known to dismiss cases against board members who voted against illegal actions or abstained. Our attorney suggests that the vote of each individual board member be recorded if the vote is not unanimous.

HankL3 (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I know that owning one is not illegal, but in our county, it is illegal to drive them on public roads, which we do, or cross public roads not classified as a golf community, which we do. It is also illegal to drive them on sidewalks, which we do all day long.

HankL3 (Florida)
Posts: 4

Posted:

It is on legal record that I voted no along with 1 other board member, documented by the secretary which will go into the Monthly newsletter.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HankL3 on 07/19/2011 6:55 PM

Can it be challenged by myself as an illegal vote?

You can make a motion at the next meeting that the Board revisit the topic.

However, there is really nothing to challenge. The majority of the Board voted to do a vs. b. The decision might have been an unwise one but it was the decision a majority of the Board made.

Good decisions tend to have good consequences and bad decisions tend to have bad consequences.

Your on record as being against it.

Tim

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708

Posted:

FYI: (Don't know if this applies to your situation)

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/1A662572742F8ED085256E9800642871

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535

Posted:

Hank,

You can make a motion at the next meeting to rescind the earlier motion to purchase the golf cart. Of course, it would be useless if the cart has already been purchased by then.

According to Roberts Rules (which many avoid using) a motion to rescind requires a 2/3 majority to pass if no prior notice is given (you just bring it up at a meeting). With prior notice, it requires a simply majority to pass.

Your president may try to rule you out of order, but according to accepted parliamentary procedure, a motion to rescind is allowed.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Hank,

The intention of the golf cart law was written to pertain to recreational use of the carts. The use that you describe is for service carts in the community. You can get a specific plate for those carts. The limits are that the cart is allowed to go to and from job sites. The vehicle may not be used to bee bop up and down the streets but to used in the service of the HOA. The law prohibiting golf cart use has age restrictions in it and if a cart is "street legal" with lights and other listed criteria, the cart then becomes street legal.

Have you ever been to The Villages?

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