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JulieS6 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Back in Feb. of this year a friend asked her landlord if she could get a dog. They said that she would have to pay a $200.00 non refundable deposit, and do an amendment to her lease. She first moved into the condo back in 2009, so its not like she just moved into this place. In April they changed the bylaws and now only the owners of the condos can have pets and renters who have them must leave or get rid of the pet. She was told about this around the first of july. She has talked to her landlord and they are upset also but bylaws are bylaws, and if you want to buy the condo you can. Can they make her do this if it says in her lease that she can have the pet? She now has until the 27th of july to move or the pet goes or the owner will be fined 100.00 a day until one is done. Help please
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
She is a renter correct? The owners are allowed to own pets? Why doesn't she pay the 200 dollars to the landlord to pay the HOA the required deposit? Is the landlord okay with her having a dog? That condition would be defined in their agreement with eachother.

I can see a legal point if your friend decides to pursue it. The HOA can't involve itself in the contracts between landlord and tenant. This is one of those gray areas that there may be some legal recourse to pursue if necessary.

I am not a proponent on suing a HOA but there are cases where it is necessary. This could be one of those areas where a lawyer should atleast be consulted to see if indeed there a good claim.

Former HOA President
JulieS6 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes she is a renter and she has already paid the 200.00 back in feb to the owner of the condo and they changed her lease to add the dog to it. Then in April the HOA changed the laws and now renters cant have them but if you own the condo you can have it. She did everything that she was suppose to do with the owner, but the HOA is the one that is making her leave or the pet or both
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
This is an interesting situation. I can't say if I've ever heard of anything like this before.

I know the U.S. Constitution forbids Congress and the states from passing laws that set aside contracts (although courts have ruled there can be rare exceptions). Unfortunately, that applies to governments and not to HOAs.

By the way, IMO such a restriction doesn't belong in the bylaws. It belongs in the Rules & Regulations or in the CCRs. If it was a change to the CCRs, was it done legally?

There might be a case based on the fact that the bylaw(?) change ocurred AFTER the lease was signed, but I really don't know. Consult a lawyer for that one.

Also, HOAs cannot selectively enforce their rules against their members. So, would this be the case if the owner is fined merely because the owner's tenant owns a dog when other homeowners can have a dog? Usually an owner can be fined if the tenant violates the same restrictions that apply to every homeowner. That's not the case here. Could this be termed selective enforcement? Again, consult a lawyer.

Finally, and forgive me for sounding facetious, I'm not trying to be, what if the tenant sells the dog to the owner, who is allowed to have dogs, and the tenant then is merely caring for the dog?

Just some passing thoughts. What do others say?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Julie,

Have the tenants Dr. write a prescription for an emotional suppot dog. That will shut the Board up. But seriously, the association may not ban dogs from renters only. What is good for the members is also good for the member's tenants. That would be unequal treatment for selected residents.

Also, a pet that was properly approved and paid for has vested interest in the community. Once this dog is no longer alive or in the unit, then they could make a rule that it may not be replaced with another one but again, then that goes for every unit, not just renters.

Florida has some pretty tight Tenant Rights laws and I cannot see where this tenant could be forced to move because the Board changed the game rules.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 07/19/2011 4:02 PM
Have the tenants Dr. write a prescription for an emotional suppot dog.

Donna,

I like it!
JulieS6 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you very much everyone and I will send all this on to her. I didnt think that it sounded fair and I feel sorry for her because the dog is a rescue dog, and has just found his forever master. So this is very sad that this has to happen. Again thank you all very much and i will let her know what she can do.

Julie
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Are we discussing a condominium or HOA?

In 2004, restricting the unit owner’s rights related to the rental condo units applied only to unit owners who voted for the amendment sometimes called a ‘grandfathering clause’. Whether the condo law has changed I truly do not know. I am more familiar with HOA laws and would have to read the documents to determine what happened here, which of course is not possible here.

Otherwise, it seems legal to restrict pets to unit owners only. You will find that many Associations (both condo and HOAs) in Florida have a pet restriction allowing owners to have pets but renters are not allowed to have pets at all.

And, yes, prescription pets are another issue.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Petunka,

Restricting renters and not restricting owners is opening up a can of worms ( some humor here) Everyone who is bound by the rules and covenants of an association must be treated equally, no matter who they are. Tenants have rights, the same as owners except for the right to vote and to participate in the business of an association.

My rental unit in Florida has removed my rights to use the pool and tennis courts, the gym and the ceramics room because I have turned those useage rights to my tenant by way of them signing the lease. You said that it seems legal to restrict pets only to owners. I would argue that it is not legal to do so.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I also say it is not legal for a HOA to enforce restrictions on a renter. Those restrictions can be enforced only on the owner who is the member of the HOA. A HOA can't interfere with owner's rights and those include rental property. They may make rules to reduce/limit it but they can't make rules on how that tenant lives. That is up to the owner.

All in all, she has a good case or atleast her owner does. For extra encouragement for the owner to get involved and sue the HOA. Let them know that as an "investment property" they may be able to make their legal costs tax deductible. It may be a case of the owner's needing to be involved with suing as the contract of the renter isn't directly with the HOA. So arrangements need to be made on legal representation for the right person to bring legal action. That most likely is the owner over the renter.

Normally, I am NOT about suing a HOA but on such a dumb and bad rule that should never have been created, I am all for it. I would even go so far as to get a group of owners who also feel this rule is dumb and get a vote going to get rid of it. That would be better than going the legal route. It can be resolved in the HOA amongst themselves if enough people want to participate and make that change.

Former HOA President
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
You said that it seems legal to restrict pets only to owners. I would argue that it is not legal to do so.

Donna,

Here are a couple of pet judgements from my 2005-2009 notes:

1. Grove Isle Condominium Association, Inc. v. Levey, et al.: the association had a pet restriction allowing owners to maintain pets, but renters were not. The arbitrator ruled: “it does not appear that the rule against pet ownership by tenants is wholly arbitrary, violates public policy, or abrogates a fundamental constitutional right.”

In this instance, the tenants were required to remove their dog from the unit.

2. Quatraine Condominium. v. Convisor and Sotolongo; the association did not allow pets pets by tenants, but allowed owners to keep pets. It was concluded that the rule precluding
tenants from having pets was enforceable, and that the differential treatment between owners and tenants was valid.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes those are good ruling in arbitration. However, they don't give the details of the situation. We don't know if the situation was that the owners didn't want the renters to have the dogs or just the association? In this case the owners are allowing the pets and the HOA not.

Basically, I wouldn't lose hope that it isn't possible for this person to own their dog. They should have a chance and take it.

Former HOA President
AnnJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 122
Posted:

Hi Julie,
As a lover of dogs and kitties, your friend's situation piqued my interest and I did some research at Attys Becker and Poliokoff's website....
http://www.becker-poliakoff.com/pubs/publications.html
... where a search for "PETS" returned 81 hits.

In many of the attorney responses to homwowners' inquiries, it was stated many times that there are many condo associations in Florida that have different requirements for tenants than those required by unit owners regarding pets.

I'm curious as to the timeline you mention in your post. When did she actually get the dog? If the bylaws were changed in April (I understand she didn't become aware until late July) and she had the dog in February or early March, I would pursue getting her dog grandfathered in. Additionally, by-law changes usually require a super majority to amend and the process takes a few weeks if not months. I would immagine her landlord was notified of the associations' intent to make this by-law change. The timing of all of this is critical, in my opinion for a plea of grandfathering.

Below are a couple responses I read on the atty website:

Question: The covenants for our homeowner’s association state that renters (tenants) cannot have dogs, although owners are allowed to keep pets. I want to rent my property to a person who has a small dog. I was under
the impression that renters have the same rights as owners except for the fact that they cannot vote or attend board meetings. Is this correct? R.K.

Answer: The state agency which administers
condominiums has ruled that condominium documents
may impose different requirements on tenants than exist
for unit owners with respect to use of units. Accordingly,
in the condominium setting, it is relatively clear that
an association can prohibit tenants from keeping pets,
through proper enactment of an amendment to the
condominium documents. A condominium association
cannot, however, discriminate against tenants in the use
of common elements. For example, a condominium
association could not declare that the swimming pool
would only be open to tenants during certain hours, while
open to unit owners at all times.
For HOA’s, there is no state agency which makes similar
pronouncements. The issue has not been addressed by
the Florida courts. In my opinion, a properly enacted
clause in the governing documents for a homeowner’s
association that prohibited tenants from keeping pets,
while permitting pets for parcel owners, would be upheld
as valid.
..........................................................................

The Florida Condominium Act specifically states that
an association cannot discriminate against tenants
in the use of common elements generally made
available for use of other unit owners. For example,
a condominium association could not permit unit
owners to park extra cars in the guest parking area,
while prohibiting tenants from having the same
right. Conversely, the state agency which regulates
condominiums has upheld restrictions which treat
tenants differently with respect to the use of the unit,
as opposed to the common elements. For example,
at least one decision has upheld a clause contained in
condominium documents which permits unit owners
to keep pets, but prohibits tenants from keeping
pets.
In the homeowners’ association context, there is no
statutory regulation of tenant issues. In general, the
governing documents will control.
.......................................................................
Thanks for reading this "epistle", Julie

Ann
PS....Petunka's replies are spot on according to my research
RZ (Arizona)
Posts: 51
Posted:
I agree- this selective rule could not possibly stand legal muster.

$100 per day for not getting rid of the dog? Just how are they going to prove that? Now cats...that is a different story, but dogs...no way! :/

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RZ on 07/21/2011 8:48 AM
I agree- this selective rule could not possibly stand legal muster.

Have you read all the posts? It appears such a selective rule already has withstood legal muster. Read the court decisions.
JulieS6 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I want to thank everyone for all the post. Some new things have happened in the last two days. She has until the 28th to remove the dog. But she has been doing alot of talking to others living in the same condo's and acouple just moved in a month ago, and they have a dog. Plus they rent, but they are not saying anything to them to move or remove the dog. They other 4 have been living in condo's for awhile. None of them have been told. So now why is she being pushed out and her dog? Plus she found out who has been watching her and her dog and reporting to the board. So it gets deeper. But again thank everyone for everything. She is getting a lawyer and going to fight this thing.
JulieS6 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Yes it was in feb. that she asked her landlord to get a dog and they said yes and changed her lease from no dog to add the dog to the lease and took a pet deposit. Then in april they changed the rules and told her at the beginning of july told her she has to go with the dog or the dog goes her choice. Her landlord didnt know anything about it (so she says) until they sent her a notice that the dog had to go. The landlord has put her condo up for sale now because of all this, she doesnt want anything to do with the condo place because of all this with the dog. Plus she found out today that 5 other people renting have dogs and they dont have to move. This has turned into a fight now I guess. She is now finding a lawyer.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonnaS on 07/19/2011 4:02 PM

Julie,

Have the tenants Dr. write a prescription for an emotional suppot dog. That will shut the Board up. But seriously, the association may not ban dogs from renters only. What is good for the members is also good for the member's tenants. That would be unequal treatment for selected residents.

Also, a pet that was properly approved and paid for has vested interest in the community. Once this dog is no longer alive or in the unit, then they could make a rule that it may not be replaced with another one but again, then that goes for every unit, not just renters.

Florida has some pretty tight Tenant Rights laws and I cannot see where this tenant could be forced to move because the Board changed the game rules.


... LOL I agree with Donna to have the dog classified as emotional support is the easiest method.

The cases noted above are “arbitration” and not in essence in a court of law. Also, under certain circumstances if a case is argued properly and not just under HOA statutes there could be a different outcome. As Donna stated FL has “Tenant Right” laws and in this instance the tenant paid a $200.00 non-refundable deposit, amended the lease, the HOA regulation was not yet in effect, etc. The Owner should potentially inform the HOA that they need to grandfather current renters to avoid violating Landlord/Tenant laws. The following could apply and the Owner and HOA needs to be aware:

83.44 Obligation of good faith.—Every rental agreement or duty within this part imposes an obligation of good faith in its performance or enforcement.

83.55 Right of action for damages.—If either the landlord or the tenant fails to comply with the requirements of the rental agreement or this part, the aggrieved party may recover the damages caused by the noncompliance.

Hmmm … how much damage for pain and suffering caused by potential loss of beloved pet in violation of requirements stated in the rental agreement.

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