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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I’ve just learned a homeowner was putting up solar lights with a friend, when the friend apparently tripped over some tree roots and fell. Apparently she busted her teeth pretty bad – two had to be extracted and the bill is estimated to be $1400. The homeowner has notified the association – I suppose she feels the association should pay for this because it would be responsible for tree roots.

I don’t have any more information on this (yet), and while I’m not completely opposed to help pay for medical expenses, the first thing that came to my mind was that these lights might have been placed in a flower bed (some of those solar lights you stake in the ground). Several years ago, homeowners were told they were responsible for maintenance of the flower beds and if this one covered up the tree roots, I wonder if the homeowner had an obligation to tell the association so it could be removed. If that’s the case, shouldn’t this be between the homeowner and her insurance company?

I realize tree roots can be tricky - I I came across an old large shrub root in my own flower bed this year while I was planting some daylillies. I managed to pull it out (after a bit of tugging), so part of me is wondering how these folks didn't it.

If we do pay (and I'm sure we'll pay something), we'll probably just pay it outright rather than involve the insurance company (it's well within our deductible and homeowner associations are having enough trouble getting affordable insurance these days). However, I want to impress upon homeowners that they really need to start looking around their homes and notifying our property manager of potentially hazardous situations (one former board member said "don't expect homeowners to take the initiative on these things - a mindset I'd like to try and change posthaste). Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Shelia,

The problem is that you don't have the full story.

What ever you do you may be setting a precedence for any future tree root claims.
Your getting into legal issues over what could have been done to prevent it? Was the Association negligent in it's maintenance of the tree roots? Were reasonable precautions taken by the person who fell?

Accidents do happen. When people are injured in an accident, it's never good. It's certainly ok to feel empathy for the individual who was hurt. Sometimes, it's just an accident and it's nobody's fault.

If the Association decides to pay something, what will they do for the next accident? By agreeing to pay, the Association will be admitting that their is an issue with tree roots and, now being aware of the problem, will need to address it or they might have a larger responsibility in the next accident.

I use the following as an example: If a tree falls in a storm and causes damage it's usually considered an act of God. However, if that tree was diseased and the owner was aware of it, the owner could be held negligence and be required to pay all damages. This would be because the owner should have known that the possibility of a diseased tree falling in a storm is more likely then for a healthy tree to fall.

My advice is to seek advice from your insurance company and/or attorney.

Tim
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How ironic that you mentioned the tree scenerio. That very one happened to me my last week in office. Unfornately, the owner didn't have homeowner's insurance that the yard the tree was in. The other owner's insurance paid for it and then pursued a lawsuit against the other owner. The HOA paid for the clean up portion....

I digress...This does sound like a homeowner's insurance responsibility. It would be something that the claim should be made to the insurance company the accident happened. That insurance company may in turn contact the HOA. They may or may not contact the HOA insurance company. Usually insurance claims get handled between insurance companies.


Former HOA President
WilliamS1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 113
Posted:
The flower beds are owned by? Homeowner

Insured by? Homeowner

Maintained by? Homeowner

Sounds like it is a homeowner issue to me.

or

The flower beds are owned by? HOA as common ground.

Insured by? HOA as common ground

Maintained by? Homeowner

Sounds like it is a HOA issue to me.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
You need to go through your insurance company. $1400 might only be the start.

Next, there are complications, add $1200.
Next it gets infected, add $1600.
More complications, hospitalization, add $15,000
Lost wages due to hospitalization $13,000

You may not even be liable, let your insurance company deal with it. Tell them immediately.

If this was a roof issue, or something construction related I would say fix it, dont tell insurance company. When someone gets hurt you need to work with insurance company. You do not have the expertise to deal with what may happen.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Sheila,

Let the insurance companies fight it out. They will anyway and that's what you pay premiums for.

Basically, it works this way. John Doe has medical and/or dental work as a result of an accident. The bill goes to his insurance company for payment. If his insurance company believes there is a third party at fault (and they nearly always do since they don't want the money to come out of their pocket), they go after the third party's insurance company, ie. the homeowner's or the association's or both - they don't care which. Rather than go to court, which costs more, they'll eventually agree among themselves who pays what.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
It can't be both ways: she was either on a common area (and not supposed to be putting up lights there) or she was in her own yard (where she should have maintained her own area).

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your comments!
While watering my daylilllies this morning before going to work, the Board president stopped by. He and the association handyman went to the lady’s house and pulled out the errant root (and one or two more). I asked how large the root was – apparently, it’s similar to a tree root in front of my own home. This one comes up through the grass (it’s like someone buried a small, thin log there) – fortunately, it’s never caused any problems for me.

However, this root is big enough that it’s easily seen – thus leading me back to the first thing I thought about when I found out about this, namely “how does one trip over something that big?” And yes, I realize stuff happens.

Tim, you’re absolutely correct – how we deal with this will set a precedent for future claims, and as I said earlier, one of my biggest concerns is that too many homeowners sit on their hands when they notice something isn’t right around the property and then when the thing gets too big to ignore (or someone gets hurt), they call the association. And then they complain when fees have to go up because our insurance premiums go up. Several years ago, we had to scramble for insurance after the previous insurance company dropped us, due to the number of claims that had been filed over a 3 year period – I don’t want that to happen again, which is why I’d rather see us handle things that are under the deductible amount.

Susan also made a good point – if these solar lights were being installed on common ground (the lawn), she should have submitted an ACR to get Board approval in the first place.

Steve, thanks for your comment regarding escalating costs – I thought about that this morning (it’s one thing to pay for injuries, but if this lady uses the incident as a way to also get her teeth capped or some other work that had nothing to do with the accident, that ain’t gonna happen, and that’s another thing we’ll have to work out)

In the end, I guess it would be easier to let the insurance companies duke it out – I just don’t want this to turn into a massive premium hike, but there may not be any way to avoid that.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
WilliamS1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 113
Posted:
It might be a situation where the garden is homeowner property, but for the sake of building structures the HOA has assumed responsability for the control of the roots of trees on common ground. In that situation, I still believe that it would fall on the homeowners insurance. As mentioned, the best thing is to report it quickly to both insurance companies and let them work it out.

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