tenant's question

Hello All,

I've registered on this forum in hope that somebody sheds some light on my situation. I'm not an HOA member but a tenant renting in an HOA community.

The owner hired a property management company to manage the rent and his HOA fees, and the HOA has its own management company.

The unit has hardwood floor properly installed. It's been installed in 1999 and there were no complaints about it so far. The floor was one of the reasons why we rented it, as I'm allergic to dust. We are a couple with no kids, don't exercise inside, work most of the day, watch TV in the evening and then go to sleep. We wear soft slipper inside and merely hear our own footsteps even when listening an ear next to the floor. The building has rather good sound proofing, but it's not 100% as we hear some quiet walking and other sounds from our neighbors.

We signed the lease in the beginning of January, with the commencement date 2 weeks after. The lease didn't include putting any rugs, neither it's required by the HOA rules. The owner has a wife, who's not on the title, moreover, it's not their community property as he bought this condo long before the marriage. A week AFTER we signed the lease, but BEFORE we moved in, she decided that she wasn't happy with the lease, and requested the property manager to tell us to put rugs, because the neighbors downstairs (their friends) are hypersensitive to any sounds. But he didn't relay it to us, and we wouldn't put rugs anyway. I have an impression that the property manager doesn't know that it's not a marriage property, as he refers to the owner and his wife as "the owners".

3 months after we moved in, somebody wrote an anonymous complaint to the HOA that we make noise; that our floor squeaked at 2:30 am (it was *literary* the complaint), somebody probably woke up to go to the bathroom - no witnesses, dates or other details specified, as well as no statement that the squeaking was excessive noise. I contacted the HOA management company, copy to the property management company asking them for details if the noise was excessive, never got any response. Our unit owner just ignored everything, and then got a letter to appear at a hearing. Then his wife contacted us and asked to meet, claiming they wanted to ask questions to help with the hearing. We offered to come to the unit and listen if the noise of our footsteps is excessive noise, they refused. Moreover, she confirmed in an email her opinion that it wasn't excessive. They wouldn't fix the squeak, either. The owner wouldn't also invite us as witnesses for the hearing.

So, we met with them, and there were no any questions, but an hour of intense coercion to put rugs. We don't know who wrote the complaint, and if the neighbors did, we don't know if the owner inspired them. I provided them with some quotes from the Davis-Sterling law, but the law didn't seem to be an authority with them (the wife has a degree in Law but doesn't practice).

A few days after the hearing we got a follow-up letter from the wife who seemed to be managing the defense. The neighbors told the Board of Directors that they hear us if we walk at night, if they are not asleep. They didn't say anything if it was loud, or it woke them up. And she replied that we were asleep at night. After that it was a conclusion that if it's our word against their, it's our problem, and the HOA decided to send a technician to walk in our unit in street shoes and a board member to listen downstairs... She already arranged an appointment when we're not home and intends to enter with her key. By our agreement, only the property manager can enter and only for repairs, and only with a written notice. I replied that we wanted to see a copy of the decision notice, and would like to hear from the HOA to arrange an appointment directly. And also asked her not to contact us anymore. After all, she's neither an owner, nor his property manager, nor anybody related to the HOA. The appointment is supposed to be in a couple of days, but we didn't hear anything neither from the HOA, nor from the HOA management company, nor from the property management company, nor from the owner so far (over a week)...

Something is really wrong here (besides the landlord harassment).

1. According to this HOA rules, non-HOA members are not allowed even to attend HOA board meetings. It sounds kind of strange that a non-member spouse would have more business with the HOA then her member husband.

2. How does it usually work, if an HOA management company receives a complaint? Should they dismiss it, if no violation has been cited (such as noise that it's not excessive) or at least pass it to the Board of Directors? I have an impression, that the management company just received a complaint, then sent out a letter without thinking. And then automatically set up a hearing, as the owner didn't respond.

3. If there is no evidence of a violation at the hearing (such as there is nothing about the noise being excessive), would the Board of Directors just close the complaint? In this case, there were no any disciplinary measures assigned. Could the notice of decision be about something different (given, we don't even know if exists)? I don't believe a single word what this lady says, because I've already seen her manipulating, deceiving and twisting things around. I figured out she's wasn't an owner from public records, otherwise, she pretty much misrepresents that she is. No letters from the HOA management contain her name either.

4. If the Board is being manipulated into frivolous complaints, should we tell them what's going on? What would be the way to contact? The HOA management company ignores us whatever we say and wouldn't contact anybody. The owner probably didn't tell them to contact us as they are afraid we talk to them.

5. What can we expect next?

Please, no advises to move out, this is an annual lease and we're also not interested moving out right now. Thank you for reading till the end.

No, it seems she doesn't. She's not a resident here, and doesn't own anything, how would she belong to the community? She doesn't go anywhere without her husband (who comes silently and always agrees with her), and I think she was a *witness* at the hearing saying that she heard us say we were asleep. She only misrepresents herself as an *owner* to us.



I understand it from the time when the complaint was filed, and so what? The wife (who has no standing with us as renters regardless of the HOA, being neither an owner, nor his legal agent) kept harassing us about the issue after the complaint. She kept telling us how she would "help" us to resolve "our" problem.



No way. Somebody walks on high heels or in heavy boots, then they determine that WE make this noise walking and order us to put rugs, this time as tenants. The complaint is that WE make the noise, and we should be the ones walking. We proposed this kind of inspection on multiple occasions before the hearing, and that they can bring the HOA representatives, they always refused. As the scheduled inspection, neither the owner, nor his wife, nor the HOA board has the right to enter without our permission and proving the necessity of it, this would be a violation of California Civil code 1927, Quiet Possession. We're actually not furniture here, but legally hire this place.

I understand that this forum is anti-tenant, the usual way of HOA. Thanks, I realized how they deal with us (furniture like). Nobody would bother to answer my questions if the complaint was valid, but sure I should be told I'm stupid. We're going to police tomorrow about the harassment, if the HOA board wants to be a part of it, good luck.

Julia,

This is very interesting.

First, is there any evidence to support the belief that installing carpets will eliminate the squeaks? I suppose the owner could install carpeting if he wants, but he might be wasting his money because I'm not conviced that will stop the squeaks. My floors squeak and they're carpeted. No one lives below me. it's a single-family dwelling and only the basement is below.

It has been my experience (and I have been told by builders) that most floor squeaks are caused by either the rubbing of adjacent subflooring sections (plywood) against each other (usually caused by the normal movement of floor support members due to changes in stress), or by the normal movement of floor support structures themselves. If that turns out to be the cause of the squeaks, whose responsibility is it to fix it?

I'm assuming from your post that you live in a multiple dwelling structure with units above and below. If that's the case, then where are the unit boundaries? Are the floor supports part of the upper unit? Or, are the floor support structures a common element much the same way the wall between horizontally adjoining units might be? If that part of the structure is considered a common element, then it would appear to me to be the association's responsibility to fix the squeaks.

We aren't anti-tenant here but it may seem that way to some who are tenants. There are lines between tenant/owner/HOA. It's much like an open triangle but you can't get to point C from A. The lines do become crossed and alot of the time seemingly invisible.

The people who give the advice here recognize those lines. They have to give advice based on those lines. You are a tenant. Which means your involvement is quite limited. There are such laws regarding "Tenant's rights" but those involve straight to the owner/tenant. The HOA can not get involved in that. The HOA can enforce violations the tenant commit onto the owner but they can't hold the tenant in violation. (Unless it's illegal activity etc..)

So you can see there are many lines to disect and the advice given was solid. I'd recommend realizing where your lines are.

Well said

The fact that the HOA would like to conduct its own investigation as to the cause of the noise seems to imply that it wants to enter tenants premises and therefore "what transpires between BOD and homeowner" is of concern to tenant.

Delores,

I sure do not agree with your statement. I, as a landlord of mulitple properties in HOA's can assure you that if Julie has any kind of a legal lease, that lease will say that 'THE LANDLORD HAS THE RIGHT AND AUTHORITY TO ENTER THE PROPERTY UPON SUFFICIENT NOTICE TO THE TENANT. If the tenant has signed the lease, then the landlord shall have the right of entry and the tenant shall have the right to be on the premisis, nothing more. The HOA and the Landlord have all of the rights here for resolution to the problem which the tenant is involved in. And please tell me where this becomes a local authority issue?

Dolores,

Very sorry for the spelling error. Me Bad!