Unsightly backyards

Hello everyone..
Question to pose. (sorry for the future inundation, but I'll probably be elected to the Board in July and wanna be informed)

1. It is my understanding that most deed restrictions/covenants concerning landscaping focuse being seen from the side and front (from the street). Now, most subdivions around here in the greater Houston area have two-story homes. I have one resident who's written to the current board president about having to see VERY untidy and rather loud landscaping out their windows from the 2nd floor. The neighbor has bright orange fluorescent paint cinder blocks as garden borders with practically ever square foot of their backyard with some sort of foliage.........

I doubt there's anything that can be done other than the neighbor asking if the blocks can be removed or changed out.............

We have criteria for backyards for those on the pond for they are open wrought iron fences and the backyards have to be maintained to the same level of expectation as the front yards.

Any experiences with backyard issues? I'm probably going to inherite this.

I'm with Donna. If you don't have something specific about what's allowed in back yards, then this is just something the complaining neighbor will have to live with. Having a lot foliage may be unsightly to some, but others may like it. If it's not expressly against the documents, then doesn't that individual have a right to use their own taste and judgment?

James,

You are absolutely correct in your post on back yard conditions. For some reason, I picked up that the yards in Troys area are fenced in except the pond lots, which have an open metel fencing along the back. Troy will need to clarify this as to whether the back yards are fenced or open. That would be my determining factor as to what any ARC guidelines should say. Much would also depend on what their CC&Rs say about yard maintenance and appearances.

Thanks everyone.

James, when you say "Private", what does that mean? I mean, we are your typcial subdivision of upper middle class for Houston, but we're not a gated community.

I totally understand your statement about "...why would you not be proud of your ownership????". The yard in question is owned by, and I hate to put an ethic-spin on it, but it is what it is, by a family that's not native to North America. What would be typical for most of us here in the States as far as yard care goes isn't something that's on a high priority for them. I mean, most of us had to do our yards as youngsters growing up and have been socialized into what is expected regarding yards. It's painfully obvious that the standards of a yard, even if they had one, aren't the same here. We have a lot of issues when it comes to yard up-keep in our subdivision and 95% of them are owned by the same group of non-North-American families (India). I'm going to call it as it is....... Guess I'm going to hear it now !!!!

Thanks for your answer JamesC... I just typically like to ask folks for data when they make such claims, to see if anyone ever has any. My hope remains that someone will have some.

The issue here isn't trash or junk cars, or an otherwise generally agreed upon eyesore, it's a difference in what is acceptable landscaping.

Brian:
Hope the data you are seeking can begin with the statement below:::: I just googled: I like the part "add a lot of curb appeal---and especially """and value to your home::: Another thought would be some data on common sense.
No more tit for tat on this issue, as if where you live has no guidelines, or concerns about a trashy yard, that's fine.
Wish you luck on finding the "data" you seek.

Jim

Sprucing up your backyard will not only allow you to enjoy the time that you spend outdoors, but it will also add a lot of curb appeal -- and value -- to your home. Although there are many landscaping projects you could embark on that would require the assistance of a landscaper or contractor, there are things you can do to boost the appeal of your yard all by yourself. Here are five quick fixes for an ugly yard that are well within the reach of the average do-it-yourself homeowner.

I'm not sure I am seeing a problem here. If I understand correctly, then one HO has a backyard with many plants and bright orange cinder blocks, and the neighboring resident complains since he doesn't agree with it and can see it from his 2nd floor windows (but not the 1st floor windows)? Yet, the HO is not in violation of the covenants nor any municipal or county codes.

In that case, it doesn't matter what the neighboring resident thinks, it's not his decision what the HO puts into the back yard as long as it doesn't violate any covenants or municipal codes. He can ask whether the HO can remove the cinder blocks and a few plants or change the cinder blocks to some in neutral color, but that's the extent. If he doesn't like it, a few tall evergreens strategically placed will ensure that he doesn't have to see those cinder blocks from his 2nd floor windows. If that is not an acceptable option either, I am sure there are other HOAs or even lots in the same HOA which as neighboring yards are visually satisfactory to the complainer, so he can buy a different house.

The whole issue seems to be a difference in aesthetics and personal preference, and I don't think one can argue about that. Personally I am sick of the overuse of the invasive burning bush in the landscaping in our HOA, but if my neighbors like those, so be it. I wouldn't tell them to replace those with something native and useful, it's their personal preference and not mine. I don't own their land, so they can do with it what they want as long as it doesn't violate the covenants or any laws or codes.

It always amazes me that people see their own home as sanctuary and that somehow includes their neighbor's back yards, but they don't want to accept that the neighbors have the same right (their house and back yards are their private sanctuaries)...

Very well said Peter.

I don't believe that this is a cultural thing (maybe the color choice of the stone, but not the amount of plants) and Troy hasn't posted the specific language that deals with this issue.

As I said earlier, I know people who feel that a backyard full of plants with nothing more than a path going through is lovely. And they're not immigrants. The fact the home owners in question here weren't born in the US is a non-issue.

It's not about being politically correct, it's about following what the communities documents say and not over-stepping the bounds to force personal preference on an area that is not controlled by the HOA.

Thanks everyone... I'm soaking all this up...

I totally agree with the insides and backyards being off limits, but when it starts effecting the quality of life of those around you, something needs to be done. What if someone had a bright Neon-light lit-up all night hanging inside a window at the front of the house, for the whole world to see, would that be acceptable? What about a car stored in the backyard? There is a deed restriction that states any home inprovement landscape-wise has to be approved by the ARC. The only thing that's not protected is laying of sod. The deed restrictions state that all side and front yards must be sodded. It also states, quote-"All landscaping on the Lot must be maintained by the owner at all times in a neat and attractive manner"-end quote. Item 3 of Section 8. Landscaping.

Now, these situations I've spoken about in this and other threads are issues that both I AND other residents who have come to me to express and have concerns about. I'm here to learn and brainstorm. Now, if I call a spade a spade and it offense someone, my apologizes, but I won't stop it. Some issues are 100% caused from social and cultural differences, period. Whether it be proper assimulation or knowledge on how to do this or do that, it still comes down to there being a problem. If that's called out, then call me politically incorrect. I have yet to write a harsh descriptive word about anyone, yet have had to read negative terms written about me. Houston is a VERY diverse metropolitan area. There are your typical rundown communities, in which over the decades, HOA's have either lost control or so many people have moved in that just don't care. Been there, done that................ Hence, my family moving and have a drive that, if I can help it, I'm not letting it happen to me or my new community again. (being proactive)

I know most of you are seasoned veterans and I'm the new kid on the block.. So, I'm going to come here with a question or situation that I may not know how to handle. If there's a problem with a resident or situation and I believe it's a cultural-difference that's causing it, I'm going to say it. Now, let's not get this confused with ethnicity persay. We have both white-Americans, black-Americans and psychedelic-Americans. The most of the issues we are having, about 95%, are from families that aren't from here and grew up on a totally different continent. So, their up-bringing and levels of residential up-keep are totally different than those of which most of us who grew up here have. Alot think that proper lawn care is just mowing, forget about the trimming, weedeating, driveways, flowerbeds, etc.... I'm trying to see if there can be an initiative to "educate" them to the culture and expectations here.......... Even though I've been drilled in the military manner, I'm also a warm-n-fuzzy sort of guy with cultural sensitivities and awareness.

Again, a call it as I see it........

OK, let the flood gates open..........

I live in a condo, I don't have a yard to call my own at all, it's all common area. I do have a patch of earth in my patio and our documents allow us to plant things in the mulched areas in front of our homes.

I am, however, an avid gardener who grew up in the country. I know from talking to other gardeners that not everyone agrees with what is attractive. I see people doing really bad things for plants, like using hedge trimmers on a Forsythia shrub. Their reasoning is that it keeps it "neat", but Forsythia is not an evergreen hedge, and treating it in that manner will cause it to bloom very poorly, and possibly kill it, over time.

This is a healthy forsythia bush: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elzey/1798981409/

My partner hates my tulips after they've bloomed. I know that the greenery needs to stay until it starts to brown, but to him it's just ugly. He thinks I should cut it all to the ground as soon as the flowers are gone.

The problem here is that "All landscaping on the Lot must be maintained by the owner at all times in a neat and attractive manner" is vague. What's neat and attractive? That is subjective. If the HOA has jurisdiction over this backyard, then the hurdle is still going to be who gets to say what's neat and attractive?

Your current language is too vague, as it is open to interpretation and if you asked 4 different people you probably get 5 different answers as to what is neat and attractive. The practice of discussing in an annual meeting (or even a mothly meeting if you increase the frequency) is not practical to me either. That would mean everybody would have to read the minutes (if those are even easily accessible), including prospective buyers or people who just moved into the neighborhood. Asking someone about what the verbal agreements were leads probably to the same results as in the 'neat and attractive' case - ask 2 differet people, get 3 different answers as to what was 'agreed' on.

So here is a suggestion:
Why don't you (the BOD or the ARC, not necessarily you personally) put together a document 'minimum landscaping standards required'. Spell out: How often the lawns must be mowed, how high the grass can be max, how much of the lot must be grass and how much can be other landscaping etc, including the backyard, what is absolutely not allowed (no orange cinder blocks etc), how much weeding must be done etc. Then there is no room for interpretation, and it is all black on white. Then let the HO vote on the document, and if approved in a vote in a meeting with the nexessary quorum as outlined in your governing documents, make it part of your CC&Rs. If someone violates those, fine them. In the interest of fairness, let realtors present the document to any prospective home buyers who are looking at homes in the neighborhood so that people know exactly what they would be buying into (and then see how many homes will still sell...). That way, you get only those people into the neighborhood you want to have there and nobody can claim that they didn't know about it.

Personally I still maintain, if I am not violating any covenants, laws, or municipal codes, my whole lot is my private property and nobody tells me what I can do with it, as long as I stay within our covenants. And I am currently living in an association that does not allow private fences. Our current restrictions are only that I cannot make any changes to the outside of the house without BOD approval, any patio or deck or combination of both may not be visible from the street in the front of the house, and the total size of patio and/or deck cannot exceed 400 sq feet, and any tree taller than 10' has to have its center at least 8' from the property line. And otherwise whatever is municipal code (so grass not higher than 8'' etc). Why would anybody think that just because the buy or own the house next to mine or bordering my backyard that they have the right to tell me what I can do, if I am not violating any code or covenant restriction? It's called 'private property' for a reason. If someone wants to have a say beyond the covenants, give me money for buying into the lot, pay your share of real estate taxes and other maintenance fees...

I had that happening to me in the last house I owned, there was quite a discussion during one of the meetings, and I only had one question and one comment for the complainer. The question was, how much money has he invested into my property? As you can guess, the answer was $0.00. The suggestion was, if it bothered him so much he could have some evergreens placed on his property that covered his line of sight to whatever he didn't like about my property.

You may ask, what was the complaint about? Well, we had a passage similar to 'neat and attractive' in the covenants. The prior homeowner had only planted hydrangea, japanese spiraea, and boxwood plants in his back yard landscaping, the rest was grass. And boxwood taken too literally, he had pruned the boxwood into box forms. I replaced those with shrubs native to Illinois, such as chokeberries, coralberries, ninebark, and buttonbush. The complainer found those 'unsightly and not as neat as spiraea and boxwood'. Needless to say, he couldn't make his case, but the discussion lasted for almost 1 hour. Tried to take matters into his own hands later with pruning my plants in the middle of the night, but that is a whole different story that I am not getting into here.

Troy: CC&Rs are covenants, conditions, and restrictions, and yes probably what you call deed restrictions. That is the only thing that is enforceable, so yes it needs to be spelled out. there could be a back-door, though. Our CC&Rs contain the clause that the BOD can pass, change and amend 'reasonable' Rules & Regulations, which everybody has to adhere to, but no vote of the membership for changes or amends is necessary.

But see, here is the thing that confuses me. You state that your community has agreed to what the minimum standards are in terms of lawncare. But color of cinder blocks and the size of landscaping in the backyards seems to be an undiscussed topic, yet that seems to be an issue for one or some residents. So how should someone know what was discussed or what is currently the minimum standard? I don't think you will get very far with those 'verbal agreements' during annual meetings, and even if you increase the frequency, who will know one year from now what was specifically discussed in this months' meeting in terms of landscaping if it is not written down? How would a new resident know 'what is expected'? If I move into a new neighborhood, I certainly won't ask whether there are any verbal agreements or minimum standards which are not in the deed restrictions. Why should I? And even if I ask, if I don't ask you but let's say your direct neighbor, maybe I don't get the same answer you would give me. If there is nothing in the deed restrictions and you have no other Rules & Regulations documents, why should someone even bother? Maybe the new resident thinks all is fine and dandy. And nobody talks to him directly.

I would also be confused. What is 'regular mowing' or weeding? It's all open to interpretation. Every 8 weeks is a rule. Every 2 weeks is a rule. Who would I have to ask in your association to get an answer? If I ask 2 different members on your BOD, will I get the same consistent answer?

Troy,

Peter pretty much has this spot on. As I posted previously, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Different cultures and even different areas of the country see landscape differently. Nevada thinks that rocks are beautiful. Out east, small concrete yards with pots---beautiful, and some parts of Texas and New Mexico find tumbleweed and sand and orange adobe as beautiful.

So unless you establish a set of landscape guidelines standards that have been accepted by the majority of the community, you cannot just assume that every resident knows or agrees with what you and some neighbors find acceptable. These standards must not conflict with what your CC&Rs state. If the CC&Rs say fences are allowed but must be ORANGE paint,(kidding) then you better believe that orange painted fences must be allowed until the day comes that the members vote to change that CC&R restriction. A rule or ARC guideline MAY NOT conflict with this.

If you read the Florida State Statutes,720 3035, you will see how they handled ARC committee guidelines and restrictions. As Peter said, in order to enforce any landscape issues, you really should have a booklet that every resident has in their posession, spelling out what and what cannot be done for yards and landscape. These rules are approved by the Board but you shuld have a members review prior to starting to enforce these. Hearsay just does not work.