HOA is out to railroad me.... Please help!

Started by ChrisB17 • 20 replies • 2082 views

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ChrisB17 (Alabama)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Initially I moved into this neighborhood expecting the HOA to be very laid back as that was how it was described to me. I parked a car in my yard overnight for 1 day and since that point they have been sending me notices for every minor violation. The HOA existed prior to my moving into the neighborhood but was operated by a homeowner. I was never presented covenants until over 2 years after I closed on my home. Since that point they passed the HOA board duties onto a lady that has little other to do than make my life miserable.

Basically what I am looking for as an answer at this point if I am legally obligated to follow these covenants even thought hey were never properly presented to me before I closed on my home. They have now also adopted a management company and raised the HOA dues. The management company warned me about my grass which by no means is high, yet they have not been keeping proper maintenance on the entrances of the neighborhood.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

YES ... you are obligated to follow all covenants and restrictions on file which pertain to your deed ... even if you never got them and/or were misinformed by the seller and/or realtor.

You accepted and agreed to them by your purchase of the associated property.

You failed to perform 'due diligance' prior to purchase ... 'man up' and live with the consequence(s) or sell out and move on down the road.

You may (or may not) have recourse against the seller or the realtor or the attorney .... good luck with that ... basically: you're scr**ed!

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Chris,

It amazes me that buying into a HOA can be done and for some reason, the Real Estate agent, the Title Search company and the lending institutuion never inform the buyer that the property is in a HOA. Was there no disclosure on the offer to purchase?

So who said that the HOA was very laid back? I guess that there are selling agents that still do not follow the Real Estate laws in alost every State now.

Yes, you must follow the covenants.Your alternative is to continually be in a fight with the Board for being noncompliant and it sounds like the "little old lady" has got something to do now that she finally is on to you.

So the entrances (another hint of a HOA) are not being properly maintained but they are tell you to keep up your grass. Are you calling this a double standard? Maybe your grass is not high but weedy or not green?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ChrisB17 on 06/19/2011 4:58 PM

I was never presented covenants until over 2 years after I closed on my home.

Based on your posting, you were made aware that there were covenants when you purchased the home. The covenants were attached to your deed and should have been provided to you at closing. If you did not get a copy of them, it would be the fault of your Realtor, the sellers Realtor, the settlement company and YOU (as you should have asked for a copy).

Quote:

Posted By ChrisB17 on 06/19/2011 4:58 PM
Initially I moved into this neighborhood expecting the HOA to be very laid back as that was how it was described to me.

The way Associations are ran depend on the people who are elected to run them. One Board might choose to enforces only certain violations and the next Board might choose to strictly enforce all of them. The only way to have the association run the way you believe it should run is to be active within the Association.

Quote:

Posted By ChrisB17 on 06/19/2011 4:58 PM

Basically what I am looking for as an answer at this point if I am legally obligated to follow these covenants even thought hey were never properly presented to me before I closed on my home.

As others have said, the answer is YES!

You were aware that there were deed restrictions when you purchased the property. When you closed on the property you were legally obligated to comply with those restrictions. The fact that no-one enforced that obligation until recently is not relevant to your obligation to comply with them.

Quote:

Posted By ChrisB17 on 06/19/2011 4:58 PM

They have now also adopted a management company and raised the HOA dues. The management company warned me about my grass which by no means is high,

I know from experience, that it typically takes more time and energy then one expects it will to serve on an Associations Board. I hope that you were one of those that learned this through your volunteer efforts.

Unfortunately, if enough members are not willing to volunteer, then those that do volunteer start to look for ways to minimize the time and energy required. This is typically accomplished either by not doing all the work that is required or hiring additional staff or a management company to take some of the work load.

Based on your posting, it appears that your Association tried not performing all the work (hence the impression of a lax Association). When that person decided to no longer volunteer their time, the job went to someone else who was at least willing to volunteer some time. It now appears that your board is trying the method of hiring additional help, which will cost more money.

If you don't agree that the management company is needed, then I would suggest getting enough like minded individuals together and submit your names for election to the Board. If you are elected, you will be empowered to make those decisions. However, if you or others choose not to volunteer and become involved in the running of your Association, you need to comply with the decisions of those who are (unless those decisions are illegal of course).

div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By ChrisB17 on 06/19/2011 4:58 PM

. . . yet they have not been keeping proper maintenance on the entrances of the neighborhood.

Chis, this is certainly an issue but it is a separate issue from being cited/warned about your property. You still need to comply with your agreement to follow the covenants. They are two different issues and do not impact each other except by the impression the board gives the membership.

If you believe that the Association is not complying with their portion of the covenants, then you have a right to address that issue. I would suggest you start by requesting a meeting with the board to discuss how the entrance sign area can be better kept up. Perhaps you can volunteer to chair a committee to review bids of contractors to perform that function.

I know that this isn't what you really wanted to hear. Hopefully, it helps.

Tim

ChrisB17 (Alabama)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I purchased this home out of bank owned foreclosure. Yes unfortunately my lawn is some what weed filled this year and didn't have many of these problems last year. I am a first time homeowner and never have dealt with grass issues within an association. I intend to take care of these issues this year at the end of the growing season but cant do a whole lot about it in the heat of the summer. My realtor was extremely lax as her typical business was investors and not homeowners. She was also the selling agent and purchasing agent, this was my second mistake. It has been a trying experience but it really is difficult to make it work when I constantly see a double standard.

They do not enforce the rules un unsightly items such as fences nor does the management company take care of the issues that they are supposed to. Perhaps I should file complaints with the management team for items that I see aren't observed that bother me. I will however go ahead and comply and look to sell my home next year and move on from this association. The neighborhood in general just has not been a good fit for me. I have had little to no contact with any of my neighbors and get dirty scowls from them constantly. I am about 20 years younger than anyone in my neighborhood. It is just me and my wife that live in the home and we are rarely home due to our extremely busy schedules.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Chris,

Make sure that you reply to each complaint you receive. Include in that response a willingness to comply and tell them what you will do and a time frame you intend to do it in. Of course, stick to what you tell them. This may help keep them off your back.

To try and change the scowls from your neighbors, you might consider hosting a neighborhood picnic. You put out the grill, get some tables and a few paper goods and invite people to bring their own drinks, their own meat and a dish to share. Have it outside in the common area so people can come and go as they wish.

Tim

ChrisB17 (Alabama)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Sadly we have no common areas. The only association everyone in the neighborhood get is when we have an HOA meeting. At that point everyone seems to be so pissed off they never have anything good to say.

The previous association members were basically dropped from the association and could have possibly been sued and perhaps even brought up on charges for embezzlement. The community had no idea there was an issues until the street lights were removed by the power company. The current association has board members as well as a management company that everyone apparently complains to.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Chalk this up to lessons learned...It's most likely best to sell your home and move out of a HOA situation. Don't be offended but there are just some people who just don't belong in a HOA. I kind of think that is you. Nothing personal in saying that. I've seen it before and it's NOT easy on either side.

May I suggest next time you purchase a home, you use a "BUYER's AGENT" instead of a realtor. Not all realtors are created equal. I often compare some to "Used car salespeople". The good ones are really good and the bad ones are really really bad. A quick trip to the courthouse's records department would have solved many of your issues. Even though the realtor isn't responsible for you to have been informed about the HOA rules, they should have atleast told you there was a HOA. You then could look up the rules as you should.

Your neighbors most likely think you are renters instead of actual owners of the property. If your not participating in your HOA by going to meetings, your neighbors may not get your status as a member. I don't think not going because people complain or it's soo negative is a valid excuse not to be more informed of your HOA. Heck, I sit through a bunch of meetings at work that operate the same way...

Be your best advocate when you live in a HOA. You get out of it what you put in. If you want to make things work, then by all means start making it work for you instead of against you....

Former HOA President

ChrisB17 (Alabama)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/19/2011 7:13 PM
Chalk this up to lessons learned...It's most likely best to sell your home and move out of a HOA situation. Don't be offended but there are just some people who just don't belong in a HOA. I kind of think that is you. Nothing personal in saying that. I've seen it before and it's NOT easy on either side.

May I suggest next time you purchase a home, you use a "BUYER's AGENT" instead of a realtor. Not all realtors are created equal. I often compare some to "Used car salespeople". The good ones are really good and the bad ones are really really bad. A quick trip to the courthouse's records department would have solved many of your issues. Even though the realtor isn't responsible for you to have been informed about the HOA rules, they should have atleast told you there was a HOA. You then could look up the rules as you should.

Your neighbors most likely think you are renters instead of actual owners of the property. If your not participating in your HOA by going to meetings, your neighbors may not get your status as a member. I don't think not going because people complain or it's soo negative is a valid excuse not to be more informed of your HOA. Heck, I sit through a bunch of meetings at work that operate the same way...

Be your best advocate when you live in a HOA. You get out of it what you put in. If you want to make things work, then by all means start making it work for you instead of against you....

Not offended at all. I honestly agree that I don't belong here. I realized it shortly after moving in. I don't typically like rules especially when it is concerned with telling me exactly how i must live or else. I am a car person so typically all of my cars are loud and very obnoxious when looked by non car people. Perhaps that creates some of the friction between me and my neighbors. However I have tried my best to keep this noise to a minimum and often find myself walking on egg shells to keep the HOA happy. I will at this point just get my ducks in a row and list my home on the market ASAP! Thank you for your help!

Also I have attend every HOA meeting that we have had. Everyone at these meetings are very standoffish and do not carry on civil conversations.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Yeah...the loud cars will do it...I got one of "those" neighbors next door to me plus with motorcycle...Don't get me wrong, I am a huge car fan myself. However, that lifestyle doesn't exactly fit into a neighborhood with a HOA. The house I am in now doesn't have a HOA and my neighbor isn't anyone's favorite person. We've had a a few throwdowns and the police just love us...LOL.

You may want to consider renting a storage spot or a garage space for those louder vehicles. A consideration when trying to sell the property as well. People don't like a crowded driveway/garage. I'd also suggest making sure you have a copy of your rules to hand over at your closing. I'd wait until the day of the closing when the people buying are official owners...It's a good gesture but not required.

I hope you do more research on purchasing property next time. Don't always depend on a realtor to give you advice. Ask your mortgage and insurance companies as well. You have time now to figure out where your mistakes were. I've bought 2 houses and used 1 as rental. It's a learning experience and you get better at it each time you do it. Just get a BUYER's AGENT!!! Your listing realtor may be able to do this for you when you put your house up for sale.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

I have to say that I'm not a real fan of buyer agents. That's because they don't really work for you. Yes, I understand that the intent is that they are the buyers representative and should look out for the buyers best interest. However, since the buyers agent and sellers realtor split the fees based on the price of the home, one has to question if the buyers agent really wants to stand firm to get a lower price or is more inclined to compromise and keep the price higher.

It's a perception I have that comes from the method the buyers agent gets paid. If you aren't the one paying them are they really working for you type of thing.

However, I do agree that if you are not going to be diligent in doing your own homework (and most of us don't have the time) then a Buyers Agent is a must.

Tim

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Chris understands there was an HOA, he just doesn't understand how they work, the power of an HOA to foreclose on your house and how strict many of them can be. Live and learn.

JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Posts like this make me so thankful for the agent I used when I bought my home (my first, also). She actually put a time-line in the offer of my home to allow me to look over the HOA documents, and included a clause that would allow me to drop the offer if there was something in them I couldn't live with and made me change my mind on the condo.

Buying your first home, condo or house, HOA or not, is exciting and overwhelming. You just don't know the things you need to ask.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am an advocate for Buyer's agents. They used to not be allowed but the rules have changed. Keep in mind that your agent can work in selling your house and also work as a buyer's agent in purchasing your next house. Which makes up for that 2 - 3 percent sale they may be "losing". Buyer's agents do work for you and negotiate deals on your behalf. I wouldn't buy a house without one. The rules have changed where it's a benefit for all parties.
HOA's are complicated and have positives. You just have to understand them in order for it to work for you. If not, it can work against you and you feel like your living in a losing battle. Participation is usually the key..

Former HOA President

TroyH (Texas)
Posts: 55

Posted:

Chris.
If I were you and you wanted to stay, ask for help when it comes to the hard. You can get weed treatment from lawn companies, assistance via the HOA or go down to Lowe's/Home Depot or any other location like that for help. Typcially, most lawns have broadleaf weed problems, fungus or ginch bug infestation. If you HOA doesn't offer any help or gives you the ole' "find out for yourself", then I wouldn't want to stay there either. Sometimes weeds can be cleaned up by a weekend's worth of work. It is rather frustrating for a homeowner who does take diligence to make their yard look good live next to someone who doesn't. We all have an obligation to take care of things and make sure our home and yards look condusive to the neighborhood. The deed restrictions should have been given to you from the get-go. I had everything in order when I did my closing and the deed restrictions still weren't given to me. I made dang sure everthing was there so I knew what was expected. When I moved into my house, it was a brand new subdivision of 110 lots. We had only about 20 homes built and moved into when I moved in. Parking a car in the yard for one day would have raised an eyebrow for me too, but if it would have lasted longer than that, I would have raised a stink too. I've lived in areas where Taqueria trucks were parked in the front yards, along with the other cars owned by people living in the house. Looks horrible.

Try to develop a relation with the HOA and let them know you are trying and are willing to learn. Again, if you don't think you can deal with this subdivision, think about moving. Life's too short to always be worried about this or that. But, know that whatever subdivision you move into, there will be certain expectations. Scout out any potential subdivision first and see what the general feel for the subdivision is like. You can generally get a gist of it.

Good luck on your decision process.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

"I parked a car in my yard overnight for 1 day and since that point they have been sending me notices for every minor violation.

Why would you think that this was proper behavior, HOA or no HOA? Railroading you - it's called enforcing the Covenants. Want them to stop? The answer is simple - obey them.

Why is it when you buy a $500.00 used car people are unwilling to believe what the car salesman says but buy a $100,000.00 or more home and they believe anything they are told?

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

JohnS43 (Colorado)
Posts: 24

Posted:

It reads as though things may have been lax for as long as a couple years leading up to the car parking incident then drastically turned around. While “railroading” may be an overstatement, what has been described as such an abrupt and total shift based on what the OP sees as a short-lived transgression is understandable. It’s possible this was a last straw in the mind of the now watchdog, but that would still represent an unnecessary escalation based on the OP’s information and experience leading up to that time.

ChrisB17 (Alabama)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GlenL on 06/20/2011 8:31 AM
"I parked a car in my yard overnight for 1 day and since that point they have been sending me notices for every minor violation.

Why would you think that this was proper behavior, HOA or no HOA? Railroading you - it's called enforcing the Covenants. Want them to stop? The answer is simple - obey them.

Why is it when you buy a $500.00 used car people are unwilling to believe what the car salesman says but buy a $100,000.00 or more home and they believe anything they are told?

This is exactly the type of rational I want to move away from. You sir are a totally unreasonable individual, this behavior has been acceptable from other members. I have seen cars parked in yards since this incident many times for days at a time. I have been singled out for more than one reason at this point because of some older individuals that still have kids my age living at home. I have tried to be careful not to offend the HOA but have not been offered any assistance with lawn care tips, company suggestions,or just general concern. All I have been given is the ol Heave ho and treated like a second rate person, just as you have talked to me.

I will fix the issues with my yard so that they are within compliance and comply with everything that this HOA request so they can continue to find new issues while others just skate by.

As stated this was one night, I think that people take this HOA business a little to seriously. I can see that this situation is definitely not for me. People like Glen apparently wear silk panties and think that his poop doesn't stink. Life is entirely to segmented without having to worry about making sure everything is exactly how the HOA wants it to be. Me personally I moved into a neighborhood with the intention of property value which is no way affected by me parking my car in the yard for 1 evening. It is pretty sad when people have nothing better to do then worry about what I am doing with my life and that they actually take time to complain periodically, perhaps they should just focus and get a life.

I was indeed a first time homebuyer and I have now learned my lesson. Unfortunately I hate the neighborhood but love my home, to bad its not really my home.

Thank you everyone who have suggestions that were directed in a helpful manner. Glenn is just Glenn.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Chris,

I think Glen was stating a simple fact of life for all members of HOA's and was trying to be helpful. If the membership complies with the covenants and rules then there is no need for enforcement. If you read through other threads on this forum you will discover the Glen provides excellent advice.

You need to remember that this forum is mainly made up of people who are currently serving or have served in some position within their Association. Those who have been doing it longer have probably heard many excuses for violating the covenants. Based on my experience the excuses are typically not a valid excuse for breaking the covenants. In your case, you chose to park your vehicle in your yard vs. the street, the driveway, the garage or any other typically identified parking area. In my opinion, unless the vehicle was involved in an accident and that accident physically placed the vehicle in the yard, the decision to park it there vs. anywhere else was a bad decision. As we all learn, decisions have consequences. Typically good decisions can lead to good consequences and bad decisions lead to bad consequences.

Chris, I took the time to try and see the issue from your point of view when I offered advice. I personally don't think you did the same for Glenn. I hope that you are aware that if your response to your Board was similar in tone and style as your response to Glen that it becomes difficult to gather support from them concerning your issue and/or to see your point of view. I certainly understand the frustration you are having. However, if that frustration enters into the communications about the issue then others may have the perception that it's really a personality conflict rather then listening to the different view points.

Tim

SusanA3 (Georgia)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Go tim

MichelleL4 (Florida)
Posts: 38

Posted:

Chris,

Please don't mistake enforcement as railroading. I, too, have served on my HOA Board for many years and know that many people are angry for being told they are not in compliance. Please respond to each violation with a time frame for compliance. That is what most Boards are looking for. Be reasonable and make sure you are in compliance when you say you will be. If you see what you believe to be selective enforcement, let the Board and the management company know in writing. Most of all, get to know your Permitted and Prohibited Uses in your documents. This was there will be no future misunderstandings. Remember, a violation letter is just a reminder. It's not anything to take personally or be frustrated about.

Michelle

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