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DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posted:
I would like to know who to contact in California when a short sale on a condo in our complex is completed that is obviously a fraudalent short-sale. The Department of Real Estate will only review/go after the real estate agent. I need an entity that will review the Homeowner in this process.

Background:

Unit owner purchased unit in 2004 as Husband/wife for say 400K
In 2007 Unit owner wife transferred title to Husband
A month later couple purchased a SFR down the street for 600K
(They took out 100K from the Condo to purchase the SFR and now owe 500K on the condo)
A month later the couple filed a false claim to the HOA claiming a need to rent property. At time we only allowed rentals that were emergency rentals.
(HOA was not aware at time that they had purchased SFR and we had rental restrictions which have subsequently been voted out)

In early 2010 house went up for sale and did not sell. House was removed from MLS in mid 2010.

Now have come to find out that Unit is in pre-foreclosure and owner is attempting to short-sell.

Here is the rub - We have come to find out that unit owner is attempting to short-sale to a family member. The Real Estate agent which is from the same ethnic group as the Owner's has not shown or listed the property for over a year and obviously only submitted 'the family members' bid as the only acceptable bid.

The current unit owner is not paying HOA dues and we have almost no recourse other than to fine. We can't foreclose on the unit because it is so under water. Value is around 200K so if we took over we would have to deal with a shortsale etc...

I am expecting if property is sold to "Family Member" then they will also not pay HOA dues and we have also found out they plan on keeping their renters who are already on the property.

All of this stinks of fraud. Why should they be able to stiff the bank with the short-sale and keep the their SFR which they purchased with proceeds from re-financing the Condo. Additionally if the bank short sells below market value that hurts all the other unit holder values. And the issue of only ONE offer being presented to bank and they may not know it is a "Family Member"

So, I'm looking who to contact once the short-sale occurs to have an investigation into the legality of the short sale.

Thanks,
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am not seeing any kind of fraudualant activity. It may not be what you would like to happen with the property but it's NOT your property or the HOA. The HOA neglecting to place a lien/fine/or take foreclosure process into their own hands is their own fault. If the HOA doesn't want to take action, then what business is it of theirs to let the owner take care of their business?

A short sale isn't the end of your property values. It is a factor the home appraisers take into consideration when viewing properties that have been sold lately. The fact that it sells under what is owed on it (a short sale) shouldn't effect anyone's home values. It's understood the property shouldn't be used as a guide for comparable home values.

The good news is when the new owner takes over, the HOA can take steps to nip the not paying behavior in the bud early. Plus they end the bleeding of the owner that isn't paying. It's a new chance to get things right.

Former HOA President
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Mellissa,

You don't see issue here where selling agent is only offering bank one potential buyer in the short-sale process? The agent has not presented the unit to the general public so that the general public may make other offers on the unit. The bank may not be aware of the fact that the agent has not marketed the unit and by presenting only one offer the to the bank then the broker guarantees only one buyer has the opportunity in this process.

Now it is true that the mere process of short-sale in this scenario is not fraudalent it is the other part of the process that I feel is fraudelent. With the help of their real estate agent the current owner is able to keep the property in the "family" and who knows who is funding this family venture. Maybe there is a backend deal going on here to help the current owner write off the amount of debt difference. So maybe now the 'family only has 200K on the books versus 500K on a 200K property. Yes, this is guessing but I wouldn't put it beyond this group of people.

I will big time disagree with you about it being used as comparable. The unit is same size as my unit AND will be used to price my property by the Assessor's office and by anyone who wants to buy my property if I were to sell. That is today's market.

You are correct the HOA has no business here other than collecting the dues or proceeding with steps if dues are not paid. I'm making this inquiry of my own due to the damage I perceive it may cause me personally if the short-sale goes through at under market value.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The lower value will HELP you with your tax assessments. You could pay LESS taxes instead of more if the house is lower in value. I just finished having a home appraisal done to my property this past week. So I've done quite a bit of research into the issue. The appraiser does take into account if the homes are foreclosures, short sales, or other conditions when evaluating home values. If your NOT selling your property or re-financing your house in the immediate future, then why does your home value matter except with your home insurance policy?

So what if the realtor makes a deal with a single buyer? It doesn't matter if it's a family member or not. What if someone drove by your house right now and offered you a million dollars for it because their wife loved it? Would that be fraudalent or unethical to sell it to this one person without opening to the public? Where is there a law that says a property has to be for public sale?

It sounds more like there is a problem with the people in the house than the actual transaction. Whatever did these people do that was so bad that they deserve this kind of scrutiny? Is it their cultural ethnicity? Because we all know there goes the neighborhood with we let the ethnics in...(BIG JOKE)

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
David, go on line and look up which bank is holding the mortgage and contact them with your information since they are the ones who will ultimately have to approve or disapprove the short sale. But I strongly advise you to leave the part about ethnicity out of it, least you come off as a shallow minded bigoted jerk. Oh, and don't get your hopes up, if they aren't paying the HOA fees then chances are they aren't paying the mortgage and the bank will be looking to cut their loses.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Actually the people who are renting happen to be the same ethnic group as the owner's and they are extremely nice people. In regards to my comment about ethnic group the owner's of the property are the type that cause problems regardless of their ethnic gorup. All I can say is that years ago they were raided by the US ATF where there the ATF entered their property with semi-automatic weapons drawn. They are the type that game every potential situation to their advantage. They lied to gain an advantage to have their unit rented and they lied about another issue that caused a legal row with them by the HOA including a filing of a legal motion against them. Enough said about this issue as it is not really central to my argument.

In regards to property valuation and property taxes yes a lower sale amount helps me in the area of lower property taxes. While I care about this my longer term concern is a price point that allows an ability to get back to our original, or higher, price point that I purchased out. If I'm down 50% on price appreciation has to be at 100% but if I'm down 25% then appreciation only has to be 33.3%. Quite a differnce. Thus, if prices aren't degraded by short-sales or foreclosures that are done below market value then we have some shred of hope.

In regards to the contacting the Bank the Bank won't even talk to me since I have no vested interest in the property. I contacted their fraud department and they won't even begin to talk.

Regarding if someone drove by my house comment: Yes that is true but here we have a case of someone gaming the system to their advantage which is quite different then what is being indicated.

I appreciate the responses and still haven't heard who I can contact other than the Board of Realtors. I would like another entity to hear my case and if they feel no fraud then I'm mistaken in my belief on this issue and will accept that.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
I see nothing illegal. The only thing bad I see is trying to talk a family member into buying a their bad investment, but that is between them. Short sales are not the "deal" you think they are.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I hate to tell you some additonal information...Rental limitations can be fought and won quite easily without a single lie being told. That's because irregardless if they are written in the documentation or not, renting limitations is in one of those gray legal areas...It depends on what state your in and if you got a good lawyer. Many rental limitations can't be enforced as one would believe. Unless the HOA owns the entire property and all the homes, they can't limit or interfere with an owner's contract with tenants. That is more up to the loan companies.

I volunteer for Habitat for Humanity and people are always perceiving the owners to be "working the system" when they build houses. Once you get to know the people and the system, you know this isn't the case. They don't get the homes for "Free". There is a 20 year mortgage with low interest. Plus the owners have to put in sweat equity hours a YEAR before they qualify for their own home. There is also financial classes they have to pass. How many of us home owners here have done that? I don't recall working on other people's houses or going through classes before I qualified for a small home. So think about what that "system" really requires before you think people are working it. It's because you DO have to work it...

Former HOA President
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Its not likely the bank is going to accept a short sale of $200k on a $500k loan. The mortgage is probably backed by Fannie, freddie or fha. If they foreclose, and pretend to try and sell it, they will get all of their money back, and more.

That said.... if they do short sale it, you better have a HOA lien filed for back dues. Its your only hope of ever seeing a dime. The deal wont close without the lien being paid at closing.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The poster is from California where I don't believe they allow liens to be filed. It's one of those situations where owners went to the state and threw a fit to change laws and got what they wished for...Now realizing to be careful of that...

Former HOA President
DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Yes from CA and a lien can be filed but if I remember correctly can only go this route when amount is over $1800 in back HOA dues. Not quite there yet but will be shortly. Other option is small claims which we are also evaluating. But this was not the purpose of my original post.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
If dues are delinquent, a lien can be placed on the property.

To foreclosure on a property, they have to be 12 months pass due or $1800, whichever comes first.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
No one needs to foreclose. Just file the lien, and when the property changes owners the hoa will be paid.

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