💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
We have a very sensitive issue in our HOA. About 17 months ago, the child of a resident had a medical issue which caused him to lose conciousness and drive into our retention pond and die. Understandably, the family has struggled to deal with it. The board agreed to build a landscaping bed on the pond bank where the vehicle entered the water. It was made very clear that the family would be allowed to place a bench and memorial stone that would lie flat to the ground next to the bench in the bed. This was intended to give the family the nice area they desired to go grieve. The agreed upon design was also intended to be discreet enough that the entrance to our neighborhood would not include a shrine that might make people uncomfortable (impressions on potential homebuyers were definitely considered). It was also made clear that the bench and bed were to be for the use of all residents, which is why the small flat stone was to be the only reminder of the accident.

Now, an angel has been placed next to the bench. This brings up the very sensitive issue. Do we have an obligation to keep a common area free of religious symbols? Do we need to be concerned with what only the majority of residents think about the angel, or do we need to be concerned with any single resident that has an issue with a religious symbol being placed in their common area?

Maybe it is better to ask if one single homeowner could successfully take action against us due to this religious symbol?

This is blowing up into a major issue very quickly for us and any advice is appreciated.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Scott,

The first mistake was to allow any type of personal use on common property. The bench might have been proper because anyone can use it. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but in my opinion, both the angel and stone must be removed. What will happen when these residents who's child passed move away and other residents are left with an angel and a stone that means nothing to them. This is really sensitive to the people but they must understand the ownership of that piece of common area is not theirs to use as a memorial spot. It is sad and it is hard but you already are seeing reactions from other owners of that land.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> It was made very clear that the family would be allowed to place a bench and memorial stone that would lie flat to the ground next to the bench in the bed.

Seems to me the issue here is that the angel is something beyond what had been approved. THAT is why it should be removed.

I think you are too hung up on the "religious symbol" aspect. After all, if someone put up a disallowed pool, and put a painting of the Virgin Mary on the bottom, that wouldn't prevent you from requiring them to remove the pool.

ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Donna - What you said makes perfect sense. Let me add a little more to my original comments. The stone has not been placed in the bed yet. The angel just showed up last week. Many in the neighborhood do not even know about the issues yet. What is happening is that the family is getting a group of people to show up at the annual meeting next week with the intention of voting for approval of the angel. The timing of this is making it difficult to deal with due to the limited time available to formulate an appropriate response.

Fred - If it was on their own personal private property, a religious symbol would be acceptable. I think you are looking at it from a different direction than I am. I am not asking if it being a religious symbol would prevent us from taking it down. I am wondering if any single homeowner could make a legitimate complaint about a religious symbol being in the common area. In other words, even if 90% of the homeowners did not care, could one person successfully take action over its existence there?

I do agree with Donna. However, trying to do the right thing here might be fighting a losing battle. If there are legal issues with a religious symbol being placed in a common area, and I can document the issues for everyone, that could help minimize the problems here.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Scott,

It really has nothing to do with a religeous item but use of common areas. Okay, 1 is there, number 2 is waiting in the wings, and then my Mother dies in my unit and there goes number 3. Where will the limit be set and who will set the limits.? I think that they might be allowed to place the bench (everyone can use it)but the stone and angel must not remain.

As a newcomer into your developement, I would really not like to see a collection of items that look like a cemetary or memorial garden. I am trying to respond in a sensitive manner but no matter what, you cannot set a presidence like this.
ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Donna,
Again, I do agree with you 100%. However, I am only one vote and feel very confident that we are not going to end up with a 100% correct answer here. That is why I am trying to focus on the religious item issue. If this could be seen as violating the rights of any single homeowner, that could be the attention getting item that gets us headed in the correct direction. Otherwise, emotions are going to get in the way of the proper decision being made. Right or wrong, I think our only option is to try to get back to the original plan, which included a small stone that most people will never even notice.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Scott,

Might your docuemts have a section on common area useage? There might be something specifically stated there. I want to tell you that you will open a really huge can of worms if you allow the religeous item to remain.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

I forgot to add, my association went into a holy war one year over??? you guessed it, Christmas decorations. This fits into a similar catagory.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
What will be next? statues for dead dogs? gnomes?

Statues have no business in a common area. Don't even use the "r" word, just focus on the inapproprate of any statue being in the common area.

BTW - I don't understand why there is an upcoming vote on this issue. The presiding officer should not allow this issue to come to a vote. The agreement was for a bench and a flat stone. End of discussion.

My heart goes out to them, but they can put their statue in their own garden.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
A homeowner just paid their monthly dues, but all the money was marked "In God We Trust" What do I do?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Euros?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Render unto the HOA what is the HOAs . . .
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Scott,

I would inform the family that the agreement was a flat stone. The angel statue is not in keeping with that agreement. If they insist on bringing this to a vote of the membership it's possible that they will not even be allowed a flat stone since various issues could be brought into the discussion.

BTW - was the size of the flat stone specified?

I agree with Donna, by allowing this a can of worms can be opened. I agree it's the compassionate thing to allow. Unfortunately, Associations must do what is legal and what is legal is not always compassionate, moral or ethical.

Tim
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 06/13/2011 2:55 PM
A homeowner just paid their monthly dues, but all the money was marked "In God We Trust" What do I do?

really? people still use cash now?

As to the OP's question:
1) get rid of the statue. The board agreed to X and Y, the statue is not X nor Y, so it goes.
2) What religion are angels? Christian? Who would want a statue of a Christian angel, those things are U-G-L-Y and scary.. seraphim with six wings, thrones with eyes on rotating bands, and cherubim with 4 heads.. ugh!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am not sure Angels are exactly religious symbols. There can be other interpretations for different people. However, I do believe removing the angel statue is appropriate but leave the stone and the bench. Let the family know it's a public place and that others will be sharing that area. Let them know that others would like to show their respect and their grieving isn't always their own. Others were effected and may want to share a moment and appreciate the tribute. It's doing what it's supposed to do, and sharing his/her memory to anyone who wants to come to that area.

There's no easy way to remove a sentimental ornamentation. Cementaries struggle with this daily. You may ask their advice as well as they handle it. They have rules set up on such displays. It may help in applying some of your own.

You may set up a time limit of like a year of such displays. Then convert the area in a respectful manner into something else. Like a flower garden. Have the family involved in the decision. Don't alienate them as this will hurt them and can make them angry. Working with them to find out where they are at in the grieving process can be a huge help. There will be a day of acceptance for them and when that happens, it will be appropriate to address the issue of continuation and how...

Former HOA President

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here