enclosed patios

Started by MindyD • 10 replies • 2926 views

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MindyD (Arizona)
Posts: 47

Posted:

I moved in to these condos 10 years ago and I asked the board at that time if I could put up a trellis to keep my cats from going outside wandering around and that way I can put the litter boxes outside and secure things on the patio. We now have new management and they are telling me it has to come down and tough luck. Since then they have built a apartment complex across the street where people can look down into my patio so I do not want it to come down. Is this something I can fight to keep up?

JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Did you get anything in writing from the board who said it was ok, or was it only a verbal agreement?

I had a similar issue myself. When I bought my condo there was a gate that closed in the patio. The patio has brick walls on three side, but is has a 42 inch opening and the previous owner put up the gate. This was common practice.

Two weeks after I moved in I got a letter saying I was in violation of the documents and had to remove the "fence". The previous owner had gotten verbal approval from a previous board, but nothing in writing. I, along with my neighbors who have the same patio layout, had to remove our gates.

It wasn't a good way to be welcomed into the neighborhood, but I learned a valuable lesson early on - get everything in writing, signed and dated.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

even if it is signed and dated, it may be worthless except for recourse against the 'signer'

the BOD does NOT have authority to grant 'exceptions' to the covenants and restrictions

please: no semantic arguments re: specific powers to waive granted in the CCR's

TroyH (Texas)
Posts: 55

Posted:

OK, I'm new to all this and reading over the threads. I'll probably be part of the Board starting in July since the current three members are stepping down and there isn't a rush of volunteers. I'm sure everyone here can relate.

I'm concerned about this thread. As a resident and potential board member, I'd like to read more takes on this. If a situation has been approved in the past, how can things be changed (unless there's some sort of public Quorum and a vote taken)? I mean, if things can change at the whim of the new Board, then what's to say anything isn't safe. What would be considered asthetically pleasing to one may be offensive to the next Board...

JenniferM10 (Illinois)
Posts: 97

Posted:

Wouldn't it depend on the wording in the documents? Mine actually specify that a fence must be approved. Therefore, if it were approved it wouldn't be an exception, it would be an approved architectural feature.

Verbal wouldn't mean anything, but if the architecture committee at the time of my written request approved something, and then a different BOD or ACC committee came back later and said it wasn't approved would be ridiculous.

Mindy, what do you documents say, specifically, about what you can have on your patio?

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Troy,

New is good. We should learn when we are new in a new field.. Posts may not always be accurate and sometimes they might just be plain wrong but at least many options are presented, then it is up to the poster to accept and sort out what they want to accept. That is learning. Glad to have you here.

Unless Mindy got an approval from her Board in writting for the enclosure, then she might be out of luck in fighting this. The protective covenants will be the ruling factor. If the covenants do not address enclosing patios, then Mindy might have an arguement against the M.C. who told her to take the trellis down.

There must be some documentation on what is allowed or not allowed for the patios. MINDY!!!, what does it say about patios and screening or enclosing them in. If indeed, Mindy is in violation of the patio covenant, luckily she should be able to remove a trellis without major deconstruction.

The moral of all of these stories is GET DOCUMENTATION. GET APPROVALS ON PAPER!

MindyD (Arizona)
Posts: 47

Posted:

Mindy here.......Thanks everyone for your input, I am still looking for the CCR's but I can tell you that I do have in writing on letterhead from our HOA back then it is ok for the enclosure. I am going through all of this because the hail storm gave us a check and instead of painting and replacing the wood they are stuccoing over the existing wood. Remodeling and the new board of 3 for a 50 unit place is calling all the shots. I figure if they get serious I will ask for the higher brick walls in their back yards all be brought down to the normal size and since all the board members have an extended wall the subject should be dropped.

MindyD (Arizona)
Posts: 47

Posted:

I found all my paperwork and I do have a letter from the board saying I can put up lattice. I even got the amended CCR's and they have not changed on that subject. I did find a newsletter 5 years later saying that they don't think lattice has a strong visual and lasting quality and put it on the list of things that need to be approved first. There is a line in the newsletter saying: All re-submissions or amended request will be treated as new requests. Does this mean I can not replace a bent or cracked panel of lattice??? need help on this one.

MindyD (Arizona)
Posts: 47

Posted:

Thank you, this is how I feel also. At our rate of turnover presidents we should have a new one in before this goes to court. I don't want to look cookie cutter also.

RZ (Arizona)
Posts: 51

Posted:

To me, something like this that has been up for ten years is de-facto accepted and grandfathered in.

1. The management company really is in no position to make this demand on their own- this is a BOD controlled issue. Normally there must be a violation submitted and you have a right to go through the appeal process with the Board. In most states, you have a right to know who submitted the request for you to take down the trellis. I don't know that the Management Company has standing without a member violation to start the process.

2. Even if you don't have approval in writing, ten years is pretty powerful. The fact that this was accepted for ten years to me seems to trump anything in writing. (besides, you can tell them you got it in writing and there should be a copy in your homeowners file- put it back on them)

3. If the BOD (or who ever is making the request) is so determined then they must apply this retro standard to everyone on everything. If your community is like most, a lot of grandfathering goes on...they can not just single you out. I doubt they want to down that road.

Time to get hard-nosed on this! If you don't roll over I think you will ultimately have the high ground on this. Good luck-

SrvN1 (Maryland)
Posts: 21

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RZ on 06/27/2011 7:17 PM
To me, something like this that has been up for ten years is de-facto accepted and grandfathered in.

1. The management company really is in no position to make this demand on their own- this is a BOD controlled issue. Normally there must be a violation submitted and you have a right to go through the appeal process with the Board. In most states, you have a right to know who submitted the request for you to take down the trellis. I don't know that the Management Company has standing without a member violation to start the process.

2. Even if you don't have approval in writing, ten years is pretty powerful. The fact that this was accepted for ten years to me seems to trump anything in writing. (besides, you can tell them you got it in writing and there should be a copy in your homeowners file- put it back on them)

3. If the BOD (or who ever is making the request) is so determined then they must apply this retro standard to everyone on everything. If your community is like most, a lot of grandfathering goes on...they can not just single you out. I doubt they want to down that road.

Time to get hard-nosed on this! If you don't roll over I think you will ultimately have the high ground on this. Good luck-

RZ -

I get what you are saying about the documentation and proof of affirmation, but something about point #2 strikes me as odd.
Specifically the statement "The fact that this was accepted for ten years to me seems to trump anything in writing."
I don't mean to be a stickler - but if someone/something were to be in violation and the notice of the violation came 10 years after the fact - I don't think that argument would work very well.

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse.

In MindyD's case after reading the thread - I feel she has a great chance to keep her lattice and her privacy.

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