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NickK (Florida)
Posts: 30
Posted:
I am on the board of a development in Florida. We have homeowners complaining of a dog left out that constantly barks. We plan on sending a "friendly" letter to the owner of the dog. My question is whether we need signed complaints and/or some other proof in order to have a hearing and impose fines, should it come to that. I'm hoping the owner of the dog will comply after they receive the letter, but I'd like to be prepared to go to the next steps if it becomes necessary. Should I ask the neighbor(s) to send a signed complaint form to get this documented? And before I get beat up as a dog-hater, I have two myself and make sure they are not a nuisance to my neighbors. Thanks in advance for any respones.
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
First, what do your covenants state about barking dogs: once we see the rule you have, we can better advise you on the next steps. Ours, for example, say nothing, and so, our HOA is in no position to issue warnings or fines for a dog barking/creating a nuisance.
DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Because pets can stir deep emotions in owners and because a homeowners association has no direct authority over pets, we are taking this approach with pet owners:

1. Refer any problems to Animal Control and request feedback from the officials who intervene. My experience with Animal Control is generally good if one is persistent to make sure they follow through. I think they are usually very busy.

2. Keep reminding folks (Newsletters or other communication methods) of the expected "pet etiquette" for the neighborhood. Essentially it is, keep your pets to yourself. No one else in the neighborhood should have to interact with your pets, clean up after them, smell them or hear them.

3. If the problem persists, you can take covenant enforcement action against a homeowner, but I would suggest this only after you've attempted to get Animal Control involved and have some documentation.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Nick, first off do you have something in your documents that address this problem? If the dog is indeed in violation, I would make the first letter "friendly". Almost all of our violation letters start out with: As you know, living in a condominium community carries with it many rights and responsibilities. When this condominium was purchased, you agreed to abide by the Declarations and By-Laws of the Aspen Glen Condominium Unit Owners' Association.

We then outline the problem and the section being violated and ask for their assistance. We have found that this works better than a letter out of the blue with: You are in violation of Section XX and if you do not cease and desist within 10 days you will be fined. The way we look at it is that people may not even realize (even though some do) they are in violation. We find asking for assistance instead of demanding compliance it keeps things from escalating into an unnecessarily adversarial situation.

Then if the situation is not corrected within ten days they get a second letter demanding compliance and setting out the consequences if they do not. Before you impose any fines I would indeed have some proof of the violation. Video of the dog barking at different times with audio should suffice. I would video at least several times to prove the point, I mean dogs will bark when the postman comes by but if it is an ongoing problem longer than a couple of minutes It may also be a violation of local ordinances and local police handle the matter.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Dwight, i wish we had a similar rule in our HOA..

Keep reminding folks (Newsletters or other communication methods) of the expected "pet etiquette" for the neighborhood. Essentially it is, keep your pets to yourself. No one else in the neighborhood should have to interact with your pets, clean up after them, smell them or hear them.

except I would prefer to change the word PET to CHILD...

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664
Posted:
Brian -

Define "CHILD". There are some so-called "ADULTS" around here that I wouldn't mind applying that to as well.
KennyD1 (Texas)
Posts: 51
Posted:
If your city has a City Code Enforcement department, let them handle the issue. In our city (Austin, Texas) we have code enforcement and they can issue citation for animals being distrutive durning abnormal hours (such as late a night) or (non-stop barking durning and after normal hours).
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By NickK on 12/19/2006 5:26 PM

I am on the board of a development in Florida. We have homeowners complaining of a dog left out that constantly barks. We plan on sending a "friendly" letter to the owner of the dog. My question is whether we need signed complaints and/or some other proof in order to have a hearing and impose fines, should it come to that. I'm hoping the owner of the dog will comply after they receive the letter, but I'd like to be prepared to go to the next steps if it becomes necessary. Should I ask the neighbor(s) to send a signed complaint form to get this documented? .........


The neighbors should not have to sign a complaint, that is one of the reasons for an HOA and BOD. Witness this yourself or with other BOD members. Make a video recording if possible. Then send the warning letter. If this doesn't work, try the animal control solutions suggested by others. A hearing, fines, etc. should be the last resort. Be prepared to show the video recording at the hearing.


Ron
SC
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
You may also check to see if there are local ordinances regarding barking dogs. If so, then you can proceed that route, which should be better.

We have a local dog barking ordinance that is governed by the police department. So we have a policy that if someone complains about a dog, then they must first have the police check it out using their procedure. If the police determine that the noise violates the ordinance, then the board can declare it a nuisance and issue a violation.

That way we don't have to make that judgement.
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By WilliamT on 12/22/2006 1:08 PM

You may also check to see if there are local ordinances regarding barking dogs. If so, then you can proceed that route, which should be better.

We have a local dog barking ordinance that is governed by the police department. So we have a policy that if someone complains about a dog, then they must first have the police check it out using their procedure. If the police determine that the noise violates the ordinance,.........


That's a good suggestion but if the police determine that the noise violates the ordinance, wouldn't they be expected to take action, not the HOA?


Ron
SC
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
Ron,

The police determine if the city ordinance has been violated and they issue a citation.

The citation is proof that a nuisance has been created which would be in conflict with the CC&R's, therefore, the board may also issue their own violation letter after proof of the violation is received. If the board decides to do that, it would be to make sure that they have taken an action in case the barking does not stop.

Alternately, the board may elect to leave the matter completely in the hands of the police. Fortunately we have not had to deal with that situation.

If that did happen to us, I would move for the board to leave it completely in the hands of the police department.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
william, excellent advice, in your last line...

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
Posted By WilliamT on 12/22/2006 7:22 PM

Ron,

The police determine if the city ordinance has been violated and they issue a citation.

The citation is proof that a nuisance has been created which would be in conflict with the CC&R's, therefore, the board may also issue their own violation letter after proof of the violation is received. If the board decides to do that, it would be to make sure that they have taken an action in case the barking does not stop.

Alternately, the board may elect to leave the matter completely in the hands of the police. Fortunately we have not had to deal with that situation.

If that did happen to us, I would move for the board to leave it completely in the hands of the police department.



I wouldn't think the board would be notified of the citation, that would be between the police and the dog owner.

I believe anything that is or could be a police or city code enforcement issue should be turned over to the police or code enforcement office. It keeps the HOA out of it, lessens the feeling by residents that the HOA is "telling them how to live their lives", and most importantly, the citation is likely to be taken more seriously than a violation letter from the HOA.

Example: Not too long ago I observed that a homeowner had placed a discarded water heater at the curb for collection by the city. Our CC&Rs prohibit doing this before the actual day of collection and this was several days before the collection day. Rather than contact our ACC person, have him visit and negotiate the removal of the water heater, I called the city code enforcement office. It was gone that evening when I drove by. No hard feelings toward the HOA.

Ron
SC
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Typically, citations and calls to residences are matters of public record. It may take some digging, and I certainly don't care enought do it, but you can find out if your neighbor got issued a speeding ticket, if you so desired. and with the effort. so you could find out if a citation for a barking dog was issued, should you be so inclined.

But like ron mentions, that could poison the well, and give the HOA an odd/bad reputation... doable, yes. advisable?
WilliamT (Arizona)
Posts: 489
Posted:
If an owner came to the Board about a barking dog, we would refer them to the police department and reference the city ordinance, and ask them to pursue the matter there. We would tell them that we do not have the capability to judge if a barking dog is violating the city ordinance, and that it is too difficult for a BOD to determine if a barking dog constitutes a nuisance, in violation of our covenants.

If the homeowner goes to the police department and successfully gets a citation issued to the dog owner, then (although we would not mention this or encourage it) they could possibly come back to the board and provide the board the citation as proof that the dog was in violation of the city ordinance and therefore request the board to issue a nuisance violation. If it's determined that the dog is continuing to bark, then we would have to send that violation letter.

That is an unlikely scenario, but it could play out that way if the dog owner paid a citation but continued to allow the dog to bark.

The board would have to discuss and decide on our action, but it could be that we would issue the violation letter because we know it is a nuisance, and request the complainant to also follow up with the police.

I like the suggestion to call the city enforcement officer for certain types of ordinance violations. We have a big trash pick up once a month in our city, and invariably some people will put their big trash out a week in advance, usually in the form of large tree trimmings, so it sits on the street for a week or more until the pick up is made.

DaveK1 (Hawaii)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Live in Hawaii - HOA rules state;
5.02 Private Area: Uses and Restrictions.

(h)…………………….Any dog, cat, or other generally recognized household pet or any bird authorized by this section causing a nuisance, annoyance, offensive odor, or an unreasonable disturbance shall be permanently removed from the Lot and from the project promptly upon notice given or demand made by or at the direction of the Board of Directors.

Board has been unresponsive. What action can I take against the board?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Dave, You could file a written complaint and request a Hearing. Pets are a tricky situation and it may be difficult for you to convince others that the situation is serious enough for action by the Board.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Dave I would suggest you check online for animal control. A visit from the county/state will do a lot more than a letter from the Association.
DaveK1 (Hawaii)
Posts: 18
Posted:
Roger & Brad
Trust me- I am way into this than a preliminary complaint. I have videtaped these offenses as proof and last week, after multiple complaints with both the HOA and the Humane Society (designated to handle in lieu of police), I delivered Quicktime movies on CD's to both entities. I do expect the Humane Society will come through for me where my HOA did NOT. I am now on a "mission" against the HOA and I'm sure others have experienced the same lack of response. The HOA's recent response was that they referred it to the Humane Society. I explained to them that I had already done that and that I wanted the HOA to also get involved on the basis of CCR's and I was looking for DUAL actions from both entities as I have been dealing with this situation for 2 years now and I'm DONE. I want them to experience consequences for their non-actions/deferrals. So yeah, I'm pissed.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Dave that might be how you feel but that doesn't make it right. I am the President of my self managed 50 home Association and I get complaints all the time.

After reading everything I could find about Associations, managing them and the laws surrounding everything I suggested to the board that there be certain things we won't get involved directly. They are parking issues, speeding issues, privacy issues and animal issues. Why? Because the Association isn't there every time something happens and won't be used as a tool for one neighbor to fight another. There are state and county organizations that are paid specifically to do and have the tools to force compliance. When I later asked if a complaint was filed; not one has done it.

Within the last two months I have had people complain about their new neighbors looking over their fence fairly regularly, dogs crapping in lawns, dogs barking at all hours of the night, parties late at night, tire tracks across a front lawn and a dog slamming into a fence repeatedly to get to the kids on the other side. I provided every one of the people who complained with the name and/or phone number to file a complaint with the sheriff or animal services.

I also do the same thing for myself. I had a dog charge/try to attack my son and me while we were walking in the street. The dog was left in the garage with the door open 18"-24" inches and the dog charged out at us. The dog kept circling us and followed us for several houses. I immediately called Animal Services and filled a complaint but indicated I wanted it to just a warning to the owner. They took down my information and left the information on their door (they weren't home at the time) and ever since the garage has only been open 12" and the dog can't get out. It works because someone with a badge that can haul the owner off to jail was handling the complaint rather than a neighbor.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
The last sentence in the second paragraph was to be the last of the third. I wish we would edit our posts...
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How timely this issue was for me yesterday! I was walking my dogs up the street as I had for the last 3 years. My dog's constantly stay on their RETRACTABLE leashes. We stay on the side of the road and try to get passed any houses with fenced in dogs as fast as we can. Don't want to make them bark or escape.

A couple of my neighbors (Elderly) I find leave their dogs UNLEASHED in their front yards. We have a leash law requiring leashes on any pet outdoors. My dogs are not big. They are on the small side of medium. As I was walking by one neighbors house, he was sitting in the front yard. His dogs NOT on a leash. He started yelling at his dogs to get back. I tried my best to walk past but my one dog was doing his "duty". His dog came out to the street. My other dog is friendly and wanted to sniff the dog. No problem there. I did pull back on the dog's leashes so to avoid contact anyways.

All of a suddent this guy starts yelling at me! He's telling me to get my dog's off the street! That I shouldn't be walking my dogs on "Strings". He then tells me that my dogs are going to be hit by a car and I shouldn't even be walking them on the road! (We don't have sidewalks and little traffic). He wanted me to walk my dogs BEHIND on the road behind his. Finally, he tells me I should take my dogs home! I just told him I live on this street and I ain't stopping.

Mind you, his dogs were the ones that ran into the road. I did NOT entice them and even yelled back at them to go back. I always try to run back any dogs that do escape and follow us. There are a few other neighbors that also walk their dogs around. I try to time our walks so we don't run into eachother. Just out of courtesy.

This is the SECOND incident involving my dogs with my neighbors. The first was a barking incident with my neighbor next door. He get drunk and accuse my dogs of barking. It was really his dogs barking instead. I ended up putting up a privacy fence to keep his dogs from my dogs. Still has NOT stopped his dogs from barking yet. ALL the neighobrs hate his dogs. Ironically, he lives behind the dog catcher!

I did find out that if a dog is INSIDE the residence, they can bark all they want. There's no real law regarding that. It is when they are outside which presents the issues. Enforcing animal restrictions truly is up to the Animal Control offices in your area. It's best to call them when an issue arises.

Right now, I think my plans are to borrow a BIG dog and walk it up and down the neighborhood. Dare anyone to say anything to me. Maybe they'd appreciate my small dogs more!

Former HOA President
MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491
Posted:
"Pet situations are tricky" is an understatement.

I almost had my two dogs killed by an irate resident who did not like that their neighbors complained about their dog barking.

I was HOA president at the time and I contacted both Animal Control and our attorney. We can push with a nuisance violation as per our CC&Rs.

I pushed. I was threatened. My dogs were threatened. People have crazy tunnel vision on their pets.

Ultimately we did have to go to court (this is the second of 2 court cases we had to file to uphold our deed restrictions.)

The judge ordered that the dogs be removed from the premises, and even stated that her ruling was based in part on our deed restrictions. We had to have a sheriff go with animal control to do it, but it finally got done.

We are single-family housing, not condos or patio homes.
DeniseH2 (Texas)
Posts: 1
Posted:
The enforcement here in Austin is pretty much non-existence. I had a terrible problem with a new neighbor's dog continually barking. I did call Animal Contol (APD) and when he finally showed up and witness for himself, he said that he could do nothing, because the homeowner was not at home. He could not even leave a note that he was there. I thought to myself, if the homeowner were home, the dog would not be barking so excessively.

At the first meeting on the phone, I told the officer the homeowner was not home. I can't understand, why he did not inform me of the policy, because if he had it sure could have save everyone alot of time and frustration.

I believe the police department should re-organized that sector. By using a skeleton crew for the animal control; those other officers should be re-assigned to serve in the troublesome areas where they will be very effective.

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