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JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Hello Everyone,

We are a non-gated, single family home community in Florida. Our CCRs contain the following language regarding parking on the street overnight: "Overnight parking of all passenger vehicles shall be in driveways, garages or in other areas designated by the Board..."Overnight" is defined as the period from sunset to sunrise." This is the only language in our docs that addresses parking (of regular vehicles). Our documents also do not allow fines for violations.

This is causing problems for our board and community because of the following:
1. We have no place other than the street to designate for overflow parking
2. Some board members and residents feel that any street parking cheapens the look of the neighborhood and we prefer to discourage excessive street parking.
3. Some board members and residents feel just as strongly that it is not the HOA's role to regulate parking on city streets. Also, with large homes and a car-dependent environment, it's easy to have 5 or more cars in one household with only a 2-car garage and space for 2 more in the driveway.
4. There are many acceptable reasons for occasional some street parking--eg, I'm having a dinner party or a boy scouts meeting in the evening. We don't want community members to feel they can't entertain.
5. A recent attempt to enforce this language has created a mess of sidewalk blocking, hazardous to people who walk, children on bikes, parents pushing strollers, etc.
6. When a car is parked on the street overnight, we don't know to whom it belongs, and when we send violation letters we often hear the car does not belong to that house. We cannot run plates.

I have suggested to the board that we designate the curb as a parking place for residents who have a permanent need for an extra parking space--eg, I have 3 children living at home who each drive their own car. However, we do not want to "open a flood gate" and have excessive street parking. Does anyone have any experience enforcing language of this sort? Have any other HOAs been successful at regulating parking, day or night, in a non-gated community? Can we address this on a case-by-case basis and not be accused of selective enforcement? Or, is this unenforceable and should we amend our documents? Survey our residents to get their feedback? Any and all suggestions are appreciated!

Thanks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are your streets private or public. You have to know that first. If they are private, then the HOA may be able to do something themselves about the parking issues. The by-laws can be changed and notices sent out on what the new rules are.

However, I suspect strongly that your streets are public and maintained by the city. Which is a different issue and takes it somewhat out of the HOA's responsibility. If there is a need for designated parking/no parking areas this will have to be addressed with the CITY council. A draft for a law will have to be drafted and submitted to the city council to vote on. However, the BOD of the HOA should be involved in this and the membership in agreement of how to make this happen.

In our HOA, we didn't allow signs except for "For Sale/Rent". When our streets were turned over to the city, they had to install their own signage. We went to the code department of the city and got a variance where we were allowed to paint our curbs instead of signs. We could letter them for whatever needs there were. This way the police could come by and enforce the street laws.

I would suggest creating a plan and designating parking areas. Have the BOD sign off and represent the needs/request to the city/county representative. I'd also have the fire marshall involved for any fire hydrant issues. Once all this red tape is discussed, then hopefully the city will approve the law and enact it.

Former HOA President
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Joanna,

Seeing that I do not want to engage in a discussion on the pros and cons of street parking, all that I can say is that your CC&Rs do NOT allow for street parking of any kind between sunset and sunrise.

Lots of vehicles require lots of parking spaces. The only way to solve this issue is to pass an amendment to the CC&Rs to allow street parking. Other than that, it seems that you might be in violation of your covenants. Sorry
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
@Donna--Doesn't the language "or any area designated by the board" give the board discretion to say that people could park on the street in front of their own home? This is what has created the gray area that has launched the discussion of the pros and cons of street parking.
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks Melissa, you are correct that the streets are public. Thank you for the information.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Joanna:

Donna is essentially right on for situation. There has been court cases throughout the country regarding this issue and unless the local city or county jumps in to deny regulating the city property, the court will generally rule the HOA is allowed to regulate.

I would recommend checking with your local city or county on where they stand on this issue because it is city property. If it is similar to my community in which their attitude is if you have private roads and pay for the maintenance then HOA can regulate; however, if it is city streets then they cannot regulate. Their statement is they can add themselves to any lawsuit to protect city property and the rights of citizens. There is no sense in spending time regulating something and fighting between neighbors, if the local government is possibly not going to allow. Once you know their attitude and stance it will better enable the community to decide then what is best for everyone.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

As Janet has said, depending on who owns the streets and if street parking is allowed will be the defining factor. The Board may not designate street parking if the City does own the streets. Absolutely No Way!! may you select who can park on any HOA property or even the street. Selective enforcement is the last place you want to go to over parking cars.
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
The streets are owned by the City, and the City does allow street parking overnight. Therefore, they do not enforce overnight parking restrictions.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Joanna:

Does the city allow just overnight or can a vehicle be parked for a few days, a week, 10 days, etc.?

As you stated here:

6. When a car is parked on the street overnight, we don't know to whom it belongs, and when we send violation letters we often hear the car does not belong to that house. We cannot run plates.

Let me give you a potential scenario given by one of my city local officials:

One HOA does not allow parking on a city street and infuriates most of the homeowners. They ban together with neighbors in surrounding HOA’s and those neighbors for a while legally park all their legally registered vehicles on the streets. They do so because they believe that because their tax dollars pay for streets who but the city is allowed to tell them where to park.

Now what is the first HOA able to do to enforce anything contained within their documents?

1) Generally if the vehicle is legally parked, legally registered, and does not violate any local ordinances it can be parked on a public street anywhere allowed by the local government.
2) Who owns the vehicle because unless the HOA has a list of all homeowner’s vehicles required by their documents, they may not know who owns said parked vehicle.
3) Who is allowed to have a vehicle on a public street towed … in my community only a city official and no towing will be done on a legally registered and parked vehicle.
4) Unless the individual who owns the vehicle lives in the HOA they do not know what rules are stated in the HOA documents.
5) Unless the individual who owns the vehicle lives in the HOA they are not legally bound to abide by the HOA rules.
6) Because it is a city street … the city is not going to allow restricted parking signs just for HOA rules.

Now again the question is what is the HOA essentially going to be able to do to enforce their documents? The answer given was essentially: Not a darn thing.

You pick your battles and sometimes there are those which are not potentially worth fighting or can be costly to fight. All our HOA’s in the area have decided this was a battle not worth fighting. When you try to enforce parking a homeowner will state it is a public street and when I called the city they said …

BuddyJ (Maryland)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Our community of single family homes has a similar rule written "Vehicles shall be parked only in the garages or in the driveways". Even though our streets are maintained by the county, we still enforce this rule. There have been a few residences with as many as 5 cars but they still cooperated with the rule. In one case, the family widen their driveway (with approval) to accomodate the additional cars.
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Yes, the city has said that they will not enforce HOA covenants, the streets are public and so parking must follow city regulations. The city does not restrict street parking overnight and so we would have no help from them with enforcement. It sounds like we need to find out from our homeowners how they feel about this issue before taking any further steps.
TroyH (Texas)
Posts: 55
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannaM on 06/02/2011 6:52 PM
Yes, the city has said that they will not enforce HOA covenants, the streets are public and so parking must follow city regulations. The city does not restrict street parking overnight and so we would have no help from them with enforcement. It sounds like we need to find out from our homeowners how they feel about this issue before taking any further steps.

Smart move...
In our young neighborhood, we have no sidewalks. Because of this, there is no sidewalk obstruction if parked in the driveway. Because we have no sidewalks, all bicycling and strolling is done in the street. An abundant amount of cars parked in the street create a hazard (blindspots of and for children). Plus, too many cars in the street give a cluttered look and also, a increased level of risk of accident getting into and out of one's driveway.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannaM on 06/01/2011 12:27 PM
The streets are owned by the City, and the City does allow street parking overnight. Therefore, they do not enforce overnight parking restrictions.

Your HOA rule of no parking on the streets is useless. Why? The HOA doesn't own the streets, therefore cannot enforce rules pertaining to the streets. If your HOA ever towed my car, I would sue the HOA for damages, time off from work, etc. And win.
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
You're right, and I believe the take home message from all of this is that we need to

1. Find out from our residents if they believe that street parking is a problem, and
2. Communicate with the City to see if they would ever help us with enforcement. I suspect the answer is no, in which case we would have to amend our documents in order to avoid being out of compliance and be accused of selectively enforcing our rules. Our current situation is that we are bound to enforce all of our rules equally and fairly, but this one seems unenforceable by us alone, we would need City involvement because they own the streets.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Why would you ask the city for help? You stated....The City does allow street parking overnight. So....... there is nothing to enforce. you dont need to ammend your bylaws, re-file them with the state, etc, which costs money, just ignore it.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
I agree more with Joanna … at this time due to other more important concerns my HOA is currently ignoring this same issue; however, due to recent city statements the potential issue is down the road a homeowner can complain that it is stated in the CCR’s and possibly try to sue the HOA. This in turn would incur HOA legal costs so it is best to potentially remove from CCR, if everyone agrees, and maybe make as a rule and regulation. While not as legally enforceable compared to having in CCR, in turn it also potentially relieves HOA liability.

Because the city does not back the regulation the HOA’s in my area have found that if they politely remind everyone every 3 to 4 months that in order to preserve the overall aesthetics of the neighborhood everyone has agreed to please keep vehicles … and generally everyone complies. If there hard lines drawn with regards to the issue, then homeowners in turn will violate the rule potentially because they can as it is city owned property. The thought to keep in mind is on some issues you can sometimes get more compliance with honey than vinegar.

Most important is you cannot just ignore, but need to insure the HOA hopefully avoids any potential future legal liability even if that means trying to change the documents. While it may cost a filing fee to remove that section, it would be less cost than potential litigation. This is a debate going on in my area ... while we are all separate HOA's, we also use each other as sounding boards with regards to having the same issue.

JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
If we just ignore it then we are selectively enforcing our rules. We can't simply ignore some rules and then enforce others, otherwise we could be challenged legally and puts us in a bad position.

We must follow our bylaws as they are written, and if everyone agrees that one is not to be enforced then it should be amended or removed so that we will be consistently enforcing all rules fairly and equally.
JoannaM (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks Janet, yes, this website has been extremely helpful. Thanks for the suggestion of sending our reminders, this may be the appropriate path for us as well.

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