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JM9 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
We are a condo association in Wisconsin who has this issue with a unit owner.
Because there is no written by-laws that forbids having a roommate, this unit owner has found a work-around to our by-laws and has rented out the unit as if it was a roommate in the unit.
Needless to say the unit owner has not physically lived in the unit since the “roommate” moved in.
Because we have no specific by-law stating that the unit owner MUST live there 24/7 side-by-side with the roommate, this person has taken advantage of that and is renting the whole unit and not just one room. The unit owner was notified of the violation and the excuse provided was that because of work she had to travel a lot and that being the reason why she is not around, which is a lie because she is living with her boyfriend in a nearby town; her checks have a different address other than our dwelling.
Since the “roommate” is a fairly quiet person and causes no other problem other than the obviously violation of our by-laws and the condo fees are being paid in time (right before the deadline). The Board taken the side of ignoring the big pink elephant in the middle of the room. The problem by now is that other unit owners who are not happy with the overall of the situation are also thinking of doing the same, thus all the units may become a rental property instead of HOA.

Anybody else with this issue on your HOA?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
JM9,

I have never run across this issue. However, I do believe that you shouldn't blame the people taking advantage of the loopholes. You should amend the law/rule to eliminate the loophole.

Tim
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Where is it in the documentation an owner can't rent out their unit? Unless the HOA owns the property, they can't limit rental property. ONLY the mortgage/loan company can do that. Even though I agree and most people in HOA's don't want rental property in their HOA, it's just not possible to limit rentals. Any good lawyer (or even bad one) can get around rental limitations in a HOA.

Yes, I know someone will ultimately post some kind of link stating that there are laws that allows a HOA to limit rentals and how terribly wrong I am. However, put yourself in the place of someone who would need to rent out their HOA property. How would you fight for your right to do so? That my friends/posters is your REAL answer to this age old issue with HOA's rental property quandry... It is NOT in the links and laws that allow the HOA to limit it...

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi JM:

I agree with Tim in that the governing documents should be amended, if the majority of homeowners vote and agree as per your governing documents and state statutes.

Melissa … I do have to respectfully disagree with you in that depending on what state you live in and the State Statutes an HOA can put limitations on rentals. There is numerous case law in which the courts, including State Supreme Courts have upheld the ability of an HOA to limit rental of units. Neither good nor bad lawyers were able to get around the law in these circumstances.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here's my thing. You violate the whole "HOA rental limitation" rule in your HOA. How is it punished? What does your HOA do to the owner? Step further...Which owner do you choose that is in violation? Does the HOA see or review the actual rental agreements between the owner/renter? Do those have to be submitted for approval to the HOA?

Yeah, you might have a law limiting rental property in your documentation...but do you have a punishment for doing so? A lien/foreclosure/lawsuit wouldn't apply if the owner's are up to date on their dues. Can't use fines as basis for liens/foreclosures. So exactly how is rental property violations even enforced???

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Melissa … While this info is not from the OP’s state here is case laws listed from CA, ND, FL, GA, NC, MA, and FL: http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/RentalCaseLaw/tabid/1835/Default.aspx

In essence … the HOA can sue the homeowner for violation of the Declaration of CCR’s.

What all of us need to keep in mind is what an HOA may be able to do within our personal states is not necessarily what can take place within any other poster’s state. You and I agree to the extent in which an individual purchases a property and in essence should have control over certain items for said property. If my family was transferred and could not sell our home at this time, then yes I would like to be able to rent the property in order to purchase another elsewhere. This is one of the reason’s I like the “must own for 1-2 years before can rent” as an option for those HOA’s wanting to limit rentals, but prevent flipping or investors for rental only. This also is a rule which is fair, can be utilized across the board for everyone, and is also more easily enforceable.

While I both understand and appreciate your passion … we all need to keep in mind that any advice offered should not be advice in which an OP, if followed, can end up in potential legal litigation OR not have certain options which potentially are available.

Again, I overall agree to some extent with you regarding rentals; however, I also try very hard to play the middle man when posting and not always let my personal opinions override the situation and state statutes.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Let me put this in reality terms. Scenerio: The HOA shows up to court to sue the renter violator. The HOA's rules are that ONLY 10 owner's may rent out their property at a time. This is supported by the state's statutes etc... Basically all the terms everyone posts here no matter the state etc...The HOA is suing an owner who is Number 11. Here's the court records for that day:

HOA Attorney/Prosecuter: "Your honor we are suing HOA member XX because they are in violation of the rental limitations of the HOA and statute xxx (insert whatever stance). We believe he is renting his property and is the 11th to do so. The HOA would like to enforce the rules upon this owner to follow the CC&R's".

Defendent's lawyer: "Your honor, we would like the HOA to show proof that our client is indeed the 11th owner to rent property in the HOA. Where are ALL the OTHER rental agreements of the other 10 renters? May we see them? (Which should have been done at the "Discovery" portion prior to the court appearance and be an Exhibit).

HOA Attorney: "We don't have copies of the other 10 lease agreements. We just know that Mr. XX is renting out his/her property"

Defendant lawyer: "How do you know Mr. XX is renting his/her property? Does the HOA NOT have a copy of the lease agreements? Do they have records of ownership of all their property?"

HOA Attorney: "No your honor, we don't have complete records on who owns each property. We also do NOT review lease agreements or approve/deny them. Owner's just have to abide by the rules set forth by the statutes and CC&R's."

Defendant lawyer: "We move to have this case dismissed. There is no proof our client is the 11th renter. The HOA has overstepped it's bounds in interfering with a contract between an owner and their client. There is also the option of extending approval for special circumstance on allowing rental property that my client was denied. However, 2 other owner's were extended. Thus making HOA unfairly picking and choosing which owners to take action against"

JUDGE: Case dismissed. HOA failed to prove their case. Each party pays their own court costs.

JUDGE IF the defendant lost: The court hereby finds the defenant guilty of violating state code xx and has to pay $100 fine and court costs. Pay up. Case closed.

Here's the other bit of reality. The losing/winning defendant gets to write most of this OFF their taxes. You can write off legal costs involving investment property. They also get to write off their HOA dues while they rent the property. The owner still may get to continue renting the property out win or lose. They may not care if they have to pay the fine for doing so. The HOA on the other hand, doesn't get to gain much of anything. A lawsuit is just a judgement and doesn't have to be paid for years. After about 7 years of non-payment the HOA has to go back to court to pursue again to keep it alive. Who's going to remember 7 years from now and when the owner is gone?

This my friend is REALITY. Why not make it a better one and use the tools the HOA has instead? The abiltity to change and adapt better rules? Notice by the way didn't mention By-laws...It's the CC&R's that's the actual contract with the HOA not the by-laws...


Former HOA President
JM9 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Greetings all,
I cannot express enough gratitude to the input of everyone, it sheds light on this tangle of terms and procedures that I am totally comfort with….
Anyhow it seems that I miss to state that our by-laws have specific statements about someone buying a unit and renting it. Thus one cannot buy the unit and put it put for rent legally.
The issue in query here is that the owner found the loop to have a “roommate” in her unit, obviously the unit owner does not live there. By definition a roommate is someone whom you live within the same swelling at the same time. Correct?
Since the previous statement is not in the by-laws, the unit owner took advantage of this loop hole and all the sudden announced she was getting a roommate and moved her own furniture out along with all her personal effects. That is not having a roommate, especially when now 9 months after the unit owner has not spent a night in the dwelling, parked her car or eaten a meal inside the property. That is NOT a roommate situation !!!

Let me give you a bit of a story to let you know what started this issue. The young woman who purchased the unit found herself not liking to live in our building because she did not care to follow preexisting rules, which obviously she did not read before she bought the unit. Her strenuous climaxes were experienced by persons outside of her unit, she basically wanted to do what she wanted when she wanted: loud music after 10 pm, laundry after 10 pm or at any time she felt like doing laundry (which is common not private), her boyfriend could not park in the parking lot, she felt people were spying on her, etc. She found that unless she was going to take a huge loss from her purchase price she was not going to be able to sell the unit at the same price nor with a profit. She first put an ad in craigslist and someone found it and when she was confronted about the rental ad she denied even when we had the print out. Her next approach was to take in a roommate as there are no written by-laws on that. Very clever of her……

Indeed the by-laws have to updated to prevent this situation in the future…but of course that implies a cost. The board now has to decide if the cost of the amendment of the by-laws is worth the money and prevent future incidents of this kind.

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