Mailbox replacement question

Started by HowardW1 • 22 replies • 7574 views

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HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Hi everyone,

I live in a 10 unit townhouse complex in Los Angeles and our HOA just replaced our mailboxes today. The mailboxes are already mounted and USPS has put in their master lock at the top, but the border around the boxes are not finished. The HOA president, who is overseeing the replacement, refuses to give us our mailbox keys until the job is done. Does anyone know the legality of this and what can be done? Not sure when everything will be done and I would like to get my keys ASAP. Also, does anyone know if mailbox keys can be duplicated at any locksmith or hardware store? The mailboxes we have are these http://www.mailboxes.com/departments/commercial-usps-mailboxes/vertical-mailboxes/surface-mounted/. I also spoke with one of my neighbors and he had to ask our president to open HIS mailbox to get HIS mail and she still wouldn't give him the keys then. This seems a little ridiculous to me. Thanks in advance.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

If mail is being delivered by the USPS to these boxes, then it must be accessible to the box-owner.

WHY is the prez not allowing people access? What does the border around the unit have anything to do with it?

If the mail is being held up by the USPS, then everyone should either wait or pick it up at the post office.

But from what you say, the prez is out of line.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Is mail being delivered to the new mailboxes? If yes, report him to the USPS. They will change his mind.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Report the president to the post office. They have their own police system. It is a FEDERAL violation and don't need to call the local police. No one can interupt the flow of mail. You also can't put anything in a mailbox that isn't mail. If it doesn't have a stamp on it, then it can't be in the mailbox. This is in regards to people putting general notices in the mailboxes. Make sure that isn't being done as well.

If you bought the lock ($7 at Home depot), the mailman would install it for free in our mailboxes. Just ask them if you catch them. We had a guy charging people $20 to do it. He knew full well the mail carrier did it for free...So be careful of people offering services to your mailboxes.

They President may have a fear of some kind of injury and being sued for it. However, that just means the president can get away with proper signage and doing the best to make the area safe instead of controlling access.

Former HOA President

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi Howard:

The keys need to be given to the individual mailbox owners. As Steve and Melissa pointed out the USPS will send a Federal Agent to investigate and when it comes to keys it can be fine and up to a 10 year prison sentence. I recommend politely requesting your key and if refused you can discuss the following and let them know you do not want to file a complaint, but will if needed.

§ 1701. Obstruction of mails generally

Whoever knowingly and willfully obstructs or retards the passage of the mail, or any carrier or conveyance carrying the mail, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

§ 1704. Keys or locks stolen or reproduced

Whoever steals, purloins, embezzles, or obtains by false pretense any key suited to any lock adopted by the Post Office Department or the Postal Service and in use on any of the mails or bags thereof, or any key to any lock box, lock drawer, or other authorized receptacle for the deposit or delivery of mail matter; or

Whoever knowingly and unlawfully makes, forges, or counterfeits any such key, or possesses any such mail lock or key with the intent unlawfully or improperly to use, sell, or otherwise dispose of the same, or to cause the same to be unlawfully or improperly used, sold, or otherwise disposed of; or

Whoever, being engaged as a contractor or otherwise in the manufacture of any such mail lock or key, delivers any finished or unfinished lock or the interior part thereof, or key, used or designed for use by the department, to any person not duly authorized under the hand of the Postmaster General and the seal of the Post Office Department or the Postal Service, to receive the same, unless the person receiving it is the contractor for furnishing the same or engaged in the manufacture thereof in the manner authorized by the contract, or the agent of such manufacturer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

WillR (Michigan)
Posts: 68

Posted:

Have you contacted the police? If he is denying you access to your mail he maybe committing a felony. Remember the mail must go though!
Maybe he will pay any late bill fees or reinstatement notices. What about medicine deliveries.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

WillR...This is a FEDERAL issue and the local police can't touch it. The owners need to contact the post office directly and let them know the situation. They have their own "Postal inspector" division that will come out and assess the situation.

I've had to deal with this issue myself as we had a rash of mailbox break-ins. My paycheck got stolen along with a sherrif's deputy's child support check. The County Sherrif deputy couldn't even do anything. I had to contact the postal inspector's office to report the crime. They called me a few times on the matter as part of their investigation. The suspect weren't caught but did find out where they were cashing the checks. It was that bank that refused to release the information to arrest the suspects. Frustrating indeed. The good news is the mailboxes did stop being robbed. (It may have been the fact I put a broken video camera in my mailbox...Which led me to the whole "Nothing but mail" education...)

All in all the President is in the wrong and it should be reported immediately.

Former HOA President

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Thanks everyone for their responses. After some bickering and personal jabs, she ended up giving the keys later this afternoon when she promised them yesterday. Her reasoning was that it was a safety issue with all the equipment needed to install the border. I told her if there was any safety issue, the mailman wouldn't deliver the mail and he was clearly delivering mail to the new boxes. I emailed her as well as the VP and treasurer that statute (thank you Janet), so they were on notice for that violation.
I did call the post office, but they would not get involved. They said I could call the postal inspection service if I wanted to file a complaint, but I didn't want to take it that far just yet. Thanks again for the support and help.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi Howard:

In many instances an individual thinks they are doing something for the right reasons and may not know of “other” certain violations. This is why I posted the information so you could inform as needed and hopefully resolve in an amiable manner.

Thank you for giving your association the opportunity to resolve, after being made aware of the legality issue. It is important, if possible, to have a community in which everyone works together for the common goals of the community.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Wow another happy ending. The mailbox keys were handed out and the Board President avoided a federal investigation and possible jail time! You've really got to be kidding right?

And to think the residents had to wait one day so the installation could be finished. I just hope they can recover.

Call the police, no call the post office, no call the federal postal inspectors, this is a federal matter. Isn't there anything more pressing to deal with on your property or perhaps you should just sit back and let someone handle the job and keep quiet.

I WANT MY KEY NOW....................SOMEONE MAKE THEM GIVE ME MY MAILBOX KEY.............

Is everyone ok now???????????? The world is safe again mail is coming in....

Don't sweat the small things this was less than small.....

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

JonD you are out of line on this one. As a recent "victim" of a severe weather outbreak of EF5 and EF4 tornado's, you have no idea how important mail delivery truly is. Our area suffered a mass power outage situation of unprecedented history. It took 3 days for even Hospitals to get power. The entire TVA power grid was knocked off including a nuclear plant. This isn't to even start speaking of the people who's homes were completely wiped off the planet. The F4/F5 Tornado stayed on the ground for 132 miles straight.It hit just 5 miles from my home.

This tragedy effected the postal services everywhere as they had to work in the dark with no power to sort out the mail. Plus they couldn't even drive to people's mailboxes until trees were removed from the roads. Which took 2 days...

However, it was one of the most comfortable feelings in my life when I got that junk mail in my mailbox after 3 days in the dark with no communication. The cell phone towers were taken out as well. The mail gave us a sense of normalcy that life would get backed to normal soon.

So with all due respect, don't take NOT getting mail as a right or for granite. Sometimes, it is rope of hope to hang onto in your darkest moments...(By the way I couldn't ignore the fact that I got my Netflix DVD in the mail during that time. A good laugh!)

Former HOA President

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/13/2011 7:25 AM
JonD you are out of line on this one. As a recent "victim" of a severe weather outbreak of EF5 and EF4 tornado's, you have no idea how important mail delivery truly is. Our area suffered a mass power outage situation of unprecedented history. It took 3 days for even Hospitals to get power. The entire TVA power grid was knocked off including a nuclear plant. This isn't to even start speaking of the people who's homes were completely wiped off the planet. The F4/F5 Tornado stayed on the ground for 132 miles straight.It hit just 5 miles from my home.

This tragedy effected the postal services everywhere as they had to work in the dark with no power to sort out the mail. Plus they couldn't even drive to people's mailboxes until trees were removed from the roads. Which took 2 days...

However, it was one of the most comfortable feelings in my life when I got that junk mail in my mailbox after 3 days in the dark with no communication. The cell phone towers were taken out as well. The mail gave us a sense of normalcy that life would get backed to normal soon.

So with all due respect, don't take NOT getting mail as a right or for granite. Sometimes, it is rope of hope to hang onto in your darkest moments...(By the way I couldn't ignore the fact that I got my Netflix DVD in the mail during that time. A good laugh!)

I am sorry you went through and are going through a recovery from the recent destructive weather you had. And I understand how getting your mail might make you feel better in some small way but with all due respect this was not the case here.

We are involved in three wars, people are dying and being injured each day, our country is broke, the governemnt is run by idiots from BOTH parties, people have lost their homes, their jobs, have no healthcare coverage and some have little if any hope of things ever getting better. Those are the big things.

But this seems to be lost on someone who now makes a federal case out of a mailbox key. The work on the new mailboxes was not completed. Perhaps the President wanted to avoid having work interupted or someone getting in the workers way or injured.
Maybe as suggested the President would get you your mail just not give you the keys until then work was DONE.

Is that really that hard for you to understand?

For some I guess so. So you waited one DAY to get the new keys. Here's a really wild thought maybe rather than pissing and moaning about the keys, you might take a look at the new mailboxes notice they are an improvement over the old ones. Understand the Board President took the lead to get this work done and made the effort without pay and say a simple THANK YOU and be done with it.

The chances of that happening ZERO. Becasue the new boxes are overshadowed by MY getting the keys controversy.

Ah......the appreciation you get from serving on the Board. Just makes you ask can you ever make some people happy.

No would be the answer to that..... I WANT MY KEYS.....SOUNDS LIKE A TWO YEAR OLD....

Hope those new keys make you feel better......

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Jond, why even bother chiming in if this issue is beyond small? Does it make you feel better to be so negative? Do you have nothing better to do with your time? And before you start acting like an a-hole (oh wait, too late), you don't know anything about the relationship the homeowners have with our president. The main reason she is president is because no one wants the job. They know that they would have to deal with her constant whining, so we might as well let her deal with the issues that come up. And I wasn't planning on mentioning this, but she actually took out the mail from the old mailboxes and is holding it. She may be doing it with the new mailboxes as well. I was expecting a package and did not want to have to go through her to get it. Would you want your president to see what type of porn magazine you subscribe to and then tell your fellow neighbors? Sometimes JonD, it's better to keep quiet when you don't know all the facts. And remember, this is a support forum, not a place to exhibit how douchey you can be.

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

JonD, why are you even here? Just saw on another post how you berated the OP. Seems like your main purpose is to belittle and berate everyone here. You must really have nothing better to do.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

"you don't know anything about the relationship the homeowners have with our president. The main reason she is president is because no one wants the job."

Does that include you Howard just to busy to help but plenty of time to run off at the mouth here about your keys.

So Howard are you happy now or can you find something else to whine about.

No one else wants the job including you but you have no trouble finding fault with everything. Some people DO and others sit by and do nothing. Howard where do you fit in?

I got it.

Sit on you lazy behind do nothing but find fault. What role did you play in getting these boxes installed? My guess not a damn thing.

What have you done period? Other than complain. If you don't like the way this woman does things than do something besides complaining. Vote yourself in and you do the work and then she can complain about you!

Maybe one day this volunteer who as we speak is combing through your mail and packages will give you what you want and quit and then one of the bright lights like yourself will have to actually do someting other than sit there and foam at the mouth over a key.

Better go check you mail you might be missing something important.....

Get a life.........because your concern about a mailbox key... YES a mialbox key suggests you have way to much time on your hands...

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 05/13/2011 9:19 AM
"you don't know anything about the relationship the homeowners have with our president. The main reason she is president is because no one wants the job."

Does that include you Howard just to busy to help but plenty of time to run off at the mouth here about your keys.

So Howard are you happy now or can you find something else to whine about.

No one else wants the job including you but you have no trouble finding fault with everything. Some people DO and others sit by and do nothing. Howard where do you fit in?

I got it.

Sit on you lazy behind do nothing but find fault. What role did you play in getting these boxes installed? My guess not a damn thing.

What have you done period? Other than complain. If you don't like the way this woman does things than do something besides complaining. Vote yourself in and you do the work and then she can complain about you!

Maybe one day this volunteer who as we speak is combing through your mail and packages will give you what you want and quit and then one of the bright lights like yourself will have to actually do someting other than sit there and foam at the mouth over a key.

Better go check you mail you might be missing something important.....

Get a life.........because your concern about a mailbox key... YES a mialbox key suggests you have way to much time on your hands...

Two words Jon...anger management.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Howard.. Don't pay attention to JonD. He's got a long history of posting such trivial negative responses to owners. He's one to talk about you having too much time on your hands since he wasted his precious time responding to something he considers so trivial. Not everything in a HOA is trivial drival. Mail issues definetely aren't. Believe me, when I was president the mailbox area was NOT a small deal. There is NEVER a task to small or large that a President of a HOA doesn't have to deal with right or wrong...Glad your HOA was able to do what they did to correct the situation. It's really not run by professionals who know what they are doing. Not an excuse as much as it's a reality...

Former HOA President

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/13/2011 9:28 AM
Howard.. Don't pay attention to JonD. He's got a long history of posting such trivial negative responses to owners. He's one to talk about you having too much time on your hands since he wasted his precious time responding to something he considers so trivial. Not everything in a HOA is trivial drival. Mail issues definetely aren't. Believe me, when I was president the mailbox area was NOT a small deal. There is NEVER a task to small or large that a President of a HOA doesn't have to deal with right or wrong...Glad your HOA was able to do what they did to correct the situation. It's really not run by professionals who know what they are doing. Not an excuse as much as it's a reality...

Melissa:

Do you feel better now? Is your need to praise and make nice nice with everyone satisifed for today?

And your history is offering opinions based on nothing.

Let me ask have you read the header at the top of this page as to the role of this site?

Something like "a place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."
"A place for Community Association Boards and Other volunteers to discuss topics
concerning their ASSOCIATION DUTIES."

This is NOT---- I WANT MY MAILBOX KEY NOW.COM

What part of that did you miss?

This is not the site to complian about the fact you had to wait one day for your new mailbox key. And perhaps the feds should be brought in.

And your attempt to suggest the HOA did something to resolve this is nothing more than wishful thinking. Do we all feel good now???

Howard is neither a member of the Board or a volunteer in fact he is nothing more than a putz.

But for some like yourself living in LA-LA land where everyone is entitled to your time and attention and mailbox keys are at the top of the list of things to do well perhaps you being a former Board Presdient is a good thing.

Howard got his key he can run over and check his mail 20 times a day he might be happy and you gave him a pat on the head to make him feel heard. Everythings SUPER!

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 05/13/2011 11:08 AM

Thanks Melissa. And I know it's a lot of work. I was the VP last year and didn't run this year because I was at constant odds with the president and didn't want to deal with her on that level anymore as it was getting too stressful.

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 05/13/2011 11:08 AM

Melissa:

Do you feel better now? Is your need to praise and make nice nice with everyone satisifed for today?

And your history is offering opinions based on nothing.

Let me ask have you read the header at the top of this page as to the role of this site?

Something like "a place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn."
"A place for Community Association Boards and Other volunteers to discuss topics
concerning their ASSOCIATION DUTIES."

This is NOT---- I WANT MY MAILBOX KEY NOW.COM

What part of that did you miss?

This is not the site to complian about the fact you had to wait one day for your new mailbox key. And perhaps the feds should be brought in.

And your attempt to suggest the HOA did something to resolve this is nothing more than wishful thinking. Do we all feel good now???

Howard is neither a member of the Board or a volunteer in fact he is nothing more than a putz.

But for some like yourself living in LA-LA land where everyone is entitled to your time and attention and mailbox keys are at the top of the list of things to do well perhaps you being a former Board Presdient is a good thing.

Howard got his key he can run over and check his mail 20 times a day he might be happy and you gave him a pat on the head to make him feel heard. Everythings SUPER!

You left out one key word Jon, this is a "A POSITIVE place for Community Association Boards..." Or is positive not in your vocabulary? But you win keyboard gangster. Run home to mama now.

MaryR7 (Colorado)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I'm a new homeowner in a neighborhood with an HOA and community mailboxes. Luckily, the Post Office is responsible for our mailboxes (we are a single family home neighborhood) and not the HOA. It's my understanding that the Post Office is trying to push most (single family home) communities to move to Post Office controlled community mailboxes, where only the P.O. has the keys to hand over to proven owners. I doubt they'll ever get all communities to comply, but in parts of Northern Colorado, that's the way most of the neighborhoods are.

Regarding the HOA, I researched thoroughly because I was leary of HOA's. Specifically I was leary of them because of people like JonD1, the God Complex type. They exist in every industry and on every subject imaginable. They forget they were once not as knowledgable or had as much experience on their particular subject as they do now and treat everyone they deem "not an expert, like me" to be beneath them and a nuisance anytime they have an issue or a question. However, without the homeowners in an HOA neighborhood, there would be no HOA because there would be no neighborhood to protect. Everyone who keeps their residence up to HOA standards and attempts to better the neighborhood is doing a good deed for the neighborhood and the HOA and that does not make them a "putz". JonD1 is the EXACT reason that everyone should stay active in the HOA's activities, making sure there are no God complexes running amok and making sure people who have no business dealing with owners (or other members of the public) get elected. People like him are a dime a dozen. They are everywhere, but unfortunately, they don't cause people to stay active in their HOA's. Instead, they turn people away from HOA properties and are the main reason HOA's have the reputation they have. He's the exact attitude I envisioned when I was first ruling out HOA properties. Luckily, I had a wonderful realtor who talked some sense into me and showed me how to research the HOA for the property I bought, beforehand.

To the original poster, I am surprised the HOA President was unaware of what a serious offense messing with U.S. mail is. In light of the rampant Identity Theft problem we have, I would hope the President would NOT want the liability of having access to everyone's mail for herself or for the board. It's hard not to be aware of the strict regulations regarding U.S. Postal mail in this country, but I guess some people are somehow oblivious to it. If mailboxes aren't accessible to the homeowner, but are accessible to others, mail should have been held at the Post Office, period. As the HOA President, she should expect homeowners to reply to any postal mail she/the Board sends to a homeowner in a timely manner, but I guess she didn't expect that homeowners deal with other entities that expect the same from them also? I'm a telecommuter who works Globally and I get time sensitive mail frequently. This really would've irked me if I had approached her about it and was blown off.

Glad she saw the light and handed over the keys. Hopefully it was just a moment of not thinking clearly on her part, and is not indicitive of the way she plans to handle everything.

HowardW1 (California)
Posts: 7

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryR7 on 05/13/2011 11:53 AM
I'm a new homeowner in a neighborhood with an HOA and community mailboxes. Luckily, the Post Office is responsible for our mailboxes (we are a single family home neighborhood) and not the HOA. It's my understanding that the Post Office is trying to push most (single family home) communities to move to Post Office controlled community mailboxes, where only the P.O. has the keys to hand over to proven owners. I doubt they'll ever get all communities to comply, but in parts of Northern Colorado, that's the way most of the neighborhoods are.

Regarding the HOA, I researched thoroughly because I was leary of HOA's. Specifically I was leary of them because of people like JonD1, the God Complex type. They exist in every industry and on every subject imaginable. They forget they were once not as knowledgable or had as much experience on their particular subject as they do now and treat everyone they deem "not an expert, like me" to be beneath them and a nuisance anytime they have an issue or a question. However, without the homeowners in an HOA neighborhood, there would be no HOA because there would be no neighborhood to protect. Everyone who keeps their residence up to HOA standards and attempts to better the neighborhood is doing a good deed for the neighborhood and the HOA and that does not make them a "putz". JonD1 is the EXACT reason that everyone should stay active in the HOA's activities, making sure there are no God complexes running amok and making sure people who have no business dealing with owners (or other members of the public) get elected. People like him are a dime a dozen. They are everywhere, but unfortunately, they don't cause people to stay active in their HOA's. Instead, they turn people away from HOA properties and are the main reason HOA's have the reputation they have. He's the exact attitude I envisioned when I was first ruling out HOA properties. Luckily, I had a wonderful realtor who talked some sense into me and showed me how to research the HOA for the property I bought, beforehand.

To the original poster, I am surprised the HOA President was unaware of what a serious offense messing with U.S. mail is. In light of the rampant Identity Theft problem we have, I would hope the President would NOT want the liability of having access to everyone's mail for herself or for the board. It's hard not to be aware of the strict regulations regarding U.S. Postal mail in this country, but I guess some people are somehow oblivious to it. If mailboxes aren't accessible to the homeowner, but are accessible to others, mail should have been held at the Post Office, period. As the HOA President, she should expect homeowners to reply to any postal mail she/the Board sends to a homeowner in a timely manner, but I guess she didn't expect that homeowners deal with other entities that expect the same from them also? I'm a telecommuter who works Globally and I get time sensitive mail frequently. This really would've irked me if I had approached her about it and was blown off.

Glad she saw the light and handed over the keys. Hopefully it was just a moment of not thinking clearly on her part, and is not indicitive of the way she plans to handle everything.

She did not let us know in advance that the mailboxes were being changed. I just walked out that day and saw the old ones off. No one was notified, not even the Post Office. Her excuse is that the contractor putting in the boxes called her that morning to say he was doing them that day and didn't have time to let the building know, not even time by email. Then the contractor had an emergency and couldn't finish the job in the time frame he said he would. I work from home and deal with time sensitive paperwork as well and you should have seen how she handled things. I'm sure almost everyone would have blown a gasket dealing with her. And she's not the type to admit she was wrong and made a mistake. My guess is that the other board members told her she needed to give the keys after I sent the email with the statute. It was in writing, so if push came to shove, there would be an electronic paper trail. We're a small complex so it's fairly easy to stay active and help out around the building even though we're not on the board. While we do have elections, it's more of a formality as homeowners are asked if they want to be on the board should someone decide to step down. I was VP last year because we didn't have one for 10 years and needed a deciding vote. That helped to keep our president somewhat in check. I'll admit she gets things done, at least more than the previous president, but the way she does it is less than professional. None of our vendors like her, but put up with her because they're getting paid. My priorities changed this year and didn't want to have to deal with her as a board member. It's much less stressful helping out in a supportive capacity. I agree that people with God complexes make it being part of an HOA difficult. But I care what happens with my money, so I deal with her to a certain extent.

JohnM49 (Michigan)
Posts: 6

Posted:

Check with your Postmaster. I am the President/CEO of our Condo Association. We had our cluster boxes replaced in the last two years. Your landlord is not allowed to have yhe mailbox keys. All mail was stopped and if the resident wanted it they had to go to the postoffice to pickup during installation. Also our postmaster would not allow us to hand out the keys, due to federal requirements. Each resident had to go to the local post office to pick up their keys.

When we ordered the mailboxes and got the keys to the new ones. We had to turn them over to the postmaster.

Just go to the postmaster and complain.

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