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JM9 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
We are a condo association in Milwaukee, WI that has by-laws against owners parking in spots reserved for visitors. We had a continuous problem with an owner who kept parking one of his many vehicles in those reserved spots. Several letter notices were sent to this owner and he was fined before (march 2010) for the same issue. This last winter we see the problem start again and notice was sent again advising of the recurrent violation and the consequential fines, at a rate of $50.00 per occurrence it totaled $450.00.
It was not until then (January 2011) that he contacted the President and spoke the issue out for the first time, he was advised to send in a letter for consideration of the Board to see if the fines could be reduced or waived.
Since that conversation with the then President of the HOA, she has fallen terminally ill and in no condition to deal with this matter.

Now in early May 2011 a letter was submitted to the Board to consider the petition to waive the fines, a vote was taken by all members of the Board: President, Treasurer, Vice-President, Secretary and 6 building directors. The majority approved the waive/reduction of the fines to the owner.
Because the issue was already discussed when the former President was present, can the current President ignore the current votes of the Board members and still charge this owner the fines that were previously approved by the same Board members with a different President?
Can the President ovverride the votes of all and still charge the fines previously agreed upon?
Is this legal for the President to override the Board's decision?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
can the current President ignore the current votes of the Board members and still charge this owner the fines that were previously approved by the same Board members with a different President?

Is the President the enforcing authority per your Governing Documents?
Was notice of the waiver sent to the resident?
Was the waiver recorded in the minutes?

It is permissible to waive the fines and if the issue continues to continue the fining from the point the waivers were granted (as they were for past fines and not future ones).

Can the President ovverride the votes of all and still charge the fines previously agreed upon?

The President is bound to decisions made by the Board. However, the decision can be revisited and the President can submit a motion to revisit the decision.

Is this legal for the President to override the Board's decision?

It's not criminal. However it is wrong. More information is needed to fully answer this question.

Is the violation still continuing or have they quit parking there?

Tim
JM9 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
can the current President ignore the current votes of the Board members and still charge this owner the fines that were previously approved by the same Board members with a different President?

Is the President the enforcing authority per your Governing Documents? YES
Was notice of the waiver sent to the resident? YES, 4 different times in the course of 2 years
Was the waiver recorded in the minutes? YES, it was just discussed in Feb12, 2011. 2 days before the last letter with the fines was sent.

It is permissible to waive the fines and if the issue continues to continue the fining from the point the waivers were granted (as they were for past fines and not future ones). I have no idea on this question......

Can the President ovverride the votes of all and still charge the fines previously agreed upon? I am not sure on this other one either.....

The President is bound to decisions made by the Board. However, the decision can be revisited and the President can submit a motion to revisit the decision. OK

Is this legal for the President to override the Board's decision?

It's not criminal. However it is wrong. More information is needed to fully answer this question.

Is the violation still continuing or have they quit parking there? The issue is no longer and the person is no longer parking in there since Feb. 14, 2011
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi JM:

The answers will ultimately be found in your association governing documents. What do your governing documents state as procedure regarding violations?

Per your statement:

“Now in early May 2011 a letter was submitted to the Board to consider the petition to waive the fines, a vote was taken by all members of the Board: President, Treasurer, Vice-President, Secretary and 6 building directors. The majority approved the waive/reduction of the fines to the owner.

The above statement leads one to believe the board is potentially the authority. Also, they did per your statement vote and now the issue is potentially in the official meeting minutes. If it was voted and in the meeting minutes I am not sure it would be wise for just the President to override.

Without you posting the exact verbiage from your documents regarding violations it is difficult to answer your question. The important fact is the individual is no longer violating the covenants and fines are money above and beyond the assessments charged and required to operate the HOA.

JM9 (Wisconsin)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you all for your input,
I do understand that the majority of the Board voted for a reduced fine to the “no longer” violator of the by-laws. I just personally find it unethical to waive the fines for one person and then loose authority to impose fines to anyone else. It will not only show favoritism but also lack of authority of the entire Board, of which I am their President.
I kindly appreciate your responses.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi JM:

I agree with the issue that everyone is supposed to be treated equally. The issue is when fines are completely waived, then other individuals can say well … so and so did not have to pay … so why do I have to pay when they did not.

Now, one idea to sometimes get around this is maybe give a homeowner a break; however, if they have the same violation in the future the past fines kick back into place and are no longer null. It can be in incentive to not make the same mistake twice because they would be liable for current and past fines if they again violate.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Keep in mind that the HOA can fine owners IF it is in their CC&R's to do so. However, fines can NOT be used as the basis of a lien/foreclosure. This means the HOA can't lien an owner for money owed strictly on fines. They also can't ADD that amount to the unpaid dues the liens/foreclosures. (Except for late fees which don't fall under the "fines" definition).

Consider fines like "speeding tickets". They aren't income makers (Despite mass misconception) nor are the supplemental income to the HOA. They are a method of punishment for failure to live up to the rules.

So if your documentation allows for the fines to assessed then it can do it. However, keep in mind the difficulty of collecting and enforcing the fines may not be worth the effort to do so.

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/12/2011 8:43 PM
Keep in mind that the HOA can fine owners IF it is in their CC&R's to do so. However, fines can NOT be used as the basis of a lien/foreclosure. This means the HOA can't lien an owner for money owed strictly on fines. They also can't ADD that amount to the unpaid dues the liens/foreclosures. (Except for late fees which don't fall under the "fines" definition).

Melissa, with all due respect, you need to be careful when making declaratory statements like these. While it is true for many States, especially those with extensive HOA laws, it isn't true everywhere. In Ohio for instance 5311 (condo) & 5312 (HOA) allows a lien against unpaid fines and I didn't see anything to prevent them from foreclosing on the lien.

The reason I am "picking" on you is because not only HOA volunteers come here but regular old owners looking for an answer to their problems and I would hate for someone to loose their home by relying on advice from a internet forum.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
EdC5 (Florida)
Posts: 117
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/13/2011 4:53 AM
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/12/2011 8:43 PM
Keep in mind that the HOA can fine owners IF it is in their CC&R's to do so. However, fines can NOT be used as the basis of a lien/foreclosure. This means the HOA can't lien an owner for money owed strictly on fines. They also can't ADD that amount to the unpaid dues the liens/foreclosures. (Except for late fees which don't fall under the "fines" definition).


Melissa, with all due respect, you need to be careful when making declaratory statements like these. While it is true for many States, especially those with extensive HOA laws, it isn't true everywhere. In Ohio for instance 5311 (condo) & 5312 (HOA) allows a lien against unpaid fines and I didn't see anything to prevent them from foreclosing on the lien.

The reason I am "picking" on you is because not only HOA volunteers come here but regular old owners looking for an answer to their problems and I would hate for someone to loose their home by relying on advice from a internet forum.

Florida also allows foreclosure proceedings for fines.

Edward J Cooke, CMCA, LCAM
WadeS (Oregon)
Posts: 2
Posted:
I don't know if this would help anyone, but I have a pre-paid legal membership and I had my documents faxed to them and any time something comes up, I just call them and ask for clarification and they already have the rules so they can tell me what I can and can't do. It only costs $35.95 month to have this.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Well at least he didn't leave his phone# and website like in his other post.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/13/2011 7:19 PM
Well at least he didn't leave his phone# and website like in his other post.

LOL ...
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 05/13/2011 7:19 PM
Well at least he didn't leave his phone# and website like in his other post.

I notice the cost went up by $10 between the posts. It was only $25.95 on the one he started. Perhaps because he is now offering advise on another persons question the fee went up.

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