Rouge Board Member!

I am currently a Maintanence Supervisor for a HOA Condominium property and have been for about a year now. I have been in 'Property Management' approximately 4 years and have certifications in many different areas pertaining to my job description and duties. This is my first venture being employed by an HOA and if this is how all of them are...it will be my last! I would like to start off with a discussion pertaining to requirements of 'Board Members'. Seems to me that BM's should have some type of experience in 'Property Management' or in Multi-Family Housing. Like I said, we are a Condo property and our BM's seem to be qualified for anything but running a property. They have no clue when it comes to Fair Housing Laws, Crime Free Certifications, Etc. (and we do have our fair share of crime) They pick and choose who gets fined according to weather they like that owner or not and a majority of them have absolutely no past business experience. The HOA and Management Commitee are for the most part intertwined, however, we have one particular BM who constantly acts on his own...Rouge, if you will. This has caused dissension among the four remaining BM's. They at one point voted to remove him from his current duties as 'management committee Chairman', however, they have no idea how to approach the situation diplomatically. This person continues to make decisions without consulting the other BM's. His decision making process is based entirely on his opinion and not on his knowledge or experience. He rules by fear and intimidation and most certainly not by example! To have a Board undivided is to not have a board at all. I have many things I would like to put out there for other opinions, but, since I am now a member of this wonderful forum, I guess I'll just take it one ridiculous thing at a time! Thank you for taking the time to read my rants and hopefully responding.

Thank you Tim for your insight, I really appreciate it. Sorry there was no question...simple rookie mistake on my first post to this forum. With that said; How does a board rein in a rouge BM without disrupting the entire system more then it already is?

Jon,

In reply to your posting:

Where did you get the impression the op was a PM?

I got the impression Dennis was a PM when he posted:


How does that involve him in the operations of the Board or actions of a Board member?

If I am correct that he is a PM, one would expect that he would be at the Board meetings. If you are correct and he is supervising the Maintenance as an employee it's a good probability that he would attend the Board meetings just as any committee chair would (at least in my mind).

Does he own property in the HOA?

He never said if he was a member of the HOA or not.

Seems strange someone who perfroms work for the property has role in the Board's operation.

It sounded to me like Dennis had gotten his certifications and entered into the work force of HOAs as a property manager or an independent contractor without the benefit of his instructors (or anyone else) preparing him for the issues we read about on this forum everyday. He needed a place to vent his frustration on what he sees as something contrary to what he expected to see in a Board meeting.

Hopefully the advice he receives will help him.

Tim

Thank you for the clarification Dennis.

As a mew Board member since Jan. of this year, I am amazed at the past Board members that either did not read or did not understand our documents. I have even heard (hearsay of course) that years ago a lady was elected to the Board who had dementia. (We are a retirment community.) I have had no experience either, but I have read books got the state laws on my computer and study the documents.

Volunteers - qualified or otherwise - run things in a democracy. Board members are elected by their peers, and as the saying goes, "People in a democracy get the kind of government they deserve."

The most non-threatening and non-confrontational way to remove a "rouge" (I think the correct word is "rogue.") board member is to elect someone else when his/her term is up. It may take longer, but unless the board member has committed a crime of some sort, or has violated state statutes (failing to attend X number of scheduled board meetings, for example), there's not much that can be done without a fight.

On the other hand, the business of governing can get downright ugly and unpleasant on occasion, and that comes with the territory. If the president appointed the board member as committee chair, he or she can simply reverse the appointment.

On the subject of qualifications for serving as a board member: these can be added into the bylaws, but it's not a simple question. A board needs a quorum in order to conduct business, and if the qualifications are too restrictive, a community could find itself without enough qualified members who are willing to fill the board seats when they become available, and with a board that can't convene a meeting, in which case no decisions could be made.

Finally, it's easy to make sweeping indictments of board members here on this forum, but far harder to investigate deeply enough to present at least two sides to every issue (There is always another side or two.), and as smart as the people on this forum are, we simply can't help you if you don't give us the full picture. We're all just wasting our time without it.

Rob

Dennis:

You seem to fail to understand your role in this matter. The Board is elected by the majority of property owners and I would guess one must be a owner to serve. It is a volunteer position with no pay. So therefore you should understand each preperty may not have 5 or 6 or 9 members all with PM knowledge. Just volunteers doing the best they can.

Now back to you. You are employed by the HOA to provide a service. That service does not include finding fault. Especially, with the Board's suggested lack of knowledge regarding Fair Housing, and Crime Prevention. How has that come to you for you input? While I could appreciate your role in assisting the Board on maintenance issues, IMO your input on how the Board operates is as I have said way out of line. And if the situation for you is that distasteful then leave.

Many properties employ an MC to help fill in the services with hopefully profesional knowledge and the ability to cover many areas the average person would not have. Maybe this property is self-managed and replies on volunteers in some cases that might make matters worse.

IMO the issues this Board has is up to the members of the Board to resolve or the property owners to find people who can manage the property in the best way possible. It is simply not YOUR role.

And Dennis to be brief:

I have a four year college degree.
I worked 30+ years in the construction industry in NYC. You can't travel through any part of NYC without coming across my work.
For several years I owned my own constuction company. So I have gone A-Z in that field.
On one of my last projects I had 120 men working for me with a payroll of $250,000 per week. Total cost of first phase of that project $75 MILLION.
I was able to retire at 47 years of age. Making investments and putting my money to work.
I have served on the Board where I live since 1987. (24 years)
I have held the positions of Secretary,Treasurer, and since 2003 President.
And in the last election for a spot on the Board I recieved more than 80% support.

Hopefully, that qualifies me for Board service. And to offer an opinion on the subject.

Posted By DennisF2 on 05/08/2011 8:37 PM
You are correct JonD1, I am being critical...mostly regarding one Board member who is for lack of a better term...Rouge. As far as having "Degrees" in Property Management, I'm not so sure one can receive a Degree in our field, however, you can be educated and thru courses like what Grace Hill offers...knowledge is power, not a title you receive being voted on a board with absolutely no prior experience in this industry. It's one thing if BM's takes the initiative to educate themselves, it's another if they just show up making important decisions based soley on their opinion, not their experience! I wonder Jond1, what Degree do you have in Property Management?

Dennis:

You seem to fail to understand your role in this matter. The Board is elected by the majority of property owners and I would guess one must be a owner to serve. It is a volunteer position with no pay. So therefore you should understand each preperty may not have 5 or 6 or 9 members all with PM knowledge. Just volunteers doing the best they can.

Now back to you. You are employed by the HOA to provide a service. That service does not include finding fault. Especially, with the Board's suggested lack of knowledge regarding Fair Housing, and Crime Prevention. How has that come to you for you input? While I could appreciate your role in assisting the Board on maintenance issues, IMO your input on how the Board operates is as I have said way out of line. And if the situation for you is that distasteful then leave.

Many properties employ an MC to help fill in the services with hopefully profesional knowledge and the ability to cover many areas the average person would not have. Maybe this property is self-managed and replies on volunteers in some cases that might make matters worse.

IMO the issues this Board has is up to the members of the Board to resolve or the property owners to find people who can manage the property in the best way possible. It is simply not YOUR role.

And Dennis to be brief:

I have a four year college degree.
I worked 30+ years in the construction industry in NYC. You can't travel through any part of NYC without coming across my work.
For several years I owned my own constuction company. So I have gone A-Z in that field.
On one of my last projects I had 120 men working for me with a payroll of $250,000 per week. Total cost of first phase of that project $75 MILLION.
I was able to retire at 47 years of age. Making investments and putting my money to work.
I have served on the Board where I live since 1987. (24 years)
I have held the positions of Secretary,Treasurer, and since 2003 President.
And in the last election for a spot on the Board I recieved more than 80% support.

Hopefully, that qualifies me for Board service. And to offer an opinion on the subject.
And Jon to be brief:

I too have a 4 year Degree in Business
I also fought for our country and served proudly for six years in the Armed Forces
I owned and operated a very successful Asset Recovery Business for 17 years
I retired at 43 years of age and if my soon to be ex-wife doesn't take me for
everything I've work for, I can resume putting my money to work.
I enjoy working and the pressures of owning a company and all that
comes with it are now behind me...thank God!
I am not however, ready for golf clubs...black socks & sandals and yelling at kids to get off my lawn!
You're resume is quite impressive, however, I am not impressed with the titles you seem to wear so proudly
when it comes to you serving on your respective Board...sounds as though you thrive on having power &
control...does nothing for me, sorry!

Running an HOA isn't about having power and control, it's about running a successful business!
What I see is some individuals who posses too much Ego and not enough business sense.
Your community is very fortunate to have you...seems you have both!
You are correct, I am critical, but, not of the entire Board, just a few.
You see Jon, in the eyes of some, I'm just a Maintanence Supervisor...a guy who knows how to fix
a toilet, however, in the eyes of others, I'm the most experienced person they have!

I really do appreciate you're input, you make some very valid points and I can truly say that
I am even more educated then I was before you and I met!

Sincerely, DennisF

Dennis:

Just to be clear the one item you are missing on your resume is property owner.

That is the key, in my mind, needed to enter the part of the HOA that manages the property.

You are employed by the HOA not an owner that has a material interest in the property.

If you were working on our property you would not be part of discussions about violations, crime, or what decisions the Board works on. IMO that is a problem with your Board they don't have a line between you as a paid employee and those serving on the Board as elected volunteers.

There may in fact be issues with the Board you have on this property it is just not your place to weigh in on how the property operates. And express your issues with either Board members or the Board as a whole.

That's may opinion.

And while you might offer valuable service in the area of maintaining the property that is where it should end.

And finally good luck with that ex-wife divorce thing. Never a good thing.