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AnnT3 (Delaware)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our management company is putting our community at risk for a potential lawsuit. There have been several major oversights by our management company, the most recent are the following:

1. One of the primary contractors has a suspended license (for the past 4 months).
2.The management company has issues with employee retention and we have had 3 property managers in less than a one year time period. Our management company does not do background checks on new hires. The person they hired 2 weeks ago to handle our account pled guilty 3 months ago to Driving Under the Influence of Drugs and Alcohol. Our community has 416 units with monthly assessments of $160,000. I certainly am not comfortable in their decision to put a convicted felon, with a suspended license, who is on probabation, in charge of managing our community and finances.

I personally checked public records to find out the above items. I presented it to the board and all BOD have been in agreement that we need to fire the management company. For some reason however, they keep putting it off. It has now been 7 months and still no board action on this. We are in a month to month contract so the board's procrastinion on firing them is unwarranted.

As a homeowner, can I take legal action to have the management company removed? What are my rights? If the board is notified of gross negligence by the management company, dont they have a responsibility to the homeowners to take action?

thank you
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There has to be more to this than your posting. A DUI offense by the employee of the management company really isn't any of your business. It is the MANAGEMENT company's business to be responsible for who they employ and why. DUI doesn't equal bad money management skills. It just means they got caught driving home from a party by a police officer when they shouldn't have been driving. One has NOTHING to do with the other.

You can sue all you want. Doesn't mean you win or the case will be heard in court. You didn't hire the management company your HOA did. The BOARD represents the HOA. The Managment company is to do ONLY what the BOARD tells them to do. So if there are any money issues or such look at your board since they are the one's in charge.

You can't force a company to fire/hire whomever they want. How is it directly effecting you? It isn't. It's just a situation that exists it's NOT a crime anymore. It's time to focus your energies on other issues like learning how a HOA functions or doing your own homework in finding a new management company. If you don't like the Management company, no one can stop YOU find from finding another one and submitting it to the board...

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Ann,

I am not a lawyer and I do not work in the legal profession. Personally, I do not see anything that you could bring legal action for. The Board is the Associations elected representatives to oversee he contracts of the Association. The decision to fire/hire is theirs.

Do you know why the Board is hesitating? There are many reasons why Boards chose to not change contractors, be it landscaping, trash removal or management services. A few I can think of off the top of my head are:

Board members lack of time to solicit bids.
Contract specifics preventing a simple termination.
Cost (this is who they can afford)
Split decisions on the Board (a majority desires to keep current contract)
Concerns over the devil known vs. the devil unknown (familiarity with the company)
Perhaps the need to regain control of records, etc. prior to termination of an employee/company.
Board members are unaware of any problems

As a member of the Association there are options other then bringing legal action available to you. They are:

1. Offer your time to the Board to head a committee to review the current contract, draw up requirements, solicit bids, check references and make recommendations to the Board.

2. Solicit a petition to call a special meeting to discuss terminating the management contract. Check your governing documents to see about the procedure and the number of signatures required. You can also visit the davis-stirling.com website for information

3. Submit your name to serve on the Board. Since it's been 7 months since you initially contacted the Board, I suspect that your Association will have an election sometime within the next 5 months. This would be plenty of time to gather support and run on the platform of replacing the current management company.

I would like to point out that based on the information you posted I do not see anything that would indicate negligence. Allow me to explain:

You indicated that background checks are not done by the Management Company. Depending on the specific job, background checks are not always required. Depending on the job, refusing to hire someone based on a background check or firing someone based on what the individual does in their off time is not always legal to do (unless it's stipulated in the employment contract). If an individual is convicted of DUI but has no need to drive a vehicle to perform their job and has never drank on the job there is zero basis to fire the individual. If an individual is convicted of embezzlement but the job doesn't require handling cash - is it wrong if the individual is hired to mow the common area?

Typically after a contractor is hired, reviewing the companies license is not usually done. I don't think anyone would check the license of the contractor you hired to redo their kitchen every day they are on the job. More then likely, they would just check it out once prior to hiring them. Now if the contractor is still on the job after the license was suspended and the company was made aware of it, that's a different issue.

Employee rotation within a company is not necessarily a bad thing. Why an individual is replaced is not always known. It could be that they left for a better job. It could be the personalities between the individual and the client did not work out. It could be that there were multiple complaints about the individual. It could be a background check was finally completed and something was discovered. It's easy to speculate as typically a member or even the board does not always know the reason why a property manager was replaced.

Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying that your concerns are not valid. I'm just trying to point out that I don't really see anything within your posting that would be considered negligence. Personally, I believe that the contractor licensing issue could be a liability if they are still working there on a suspended license. However, without specifics as to why the license was suspended one can only speculate. Personally, I know that my speculations are usually far different then the actual facts. This is why I caution people on speculating.

Hopefully the suggestions I provided will provide you some assistance.

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Ann,

I went back to read your other posts and realized that you have posted about issues with the management company before. Past posts also indicated that you were a member of the Board.

Are you still a member of the Board?

If you are, I've discovered that sometimes Board members are willing to vote on issues but not willing to do the work to bring the issue to a vote. If you are still a board member I would suggest the following:

1. Remove any check issuing authority the MC might have. I recommend this for any company or employee as common sense would indicate that the Board should control the check book. If you disagree please make arrangements for me to issue checks from your personal checking account. You probably know me as well as your management company.

2. Make a motion to investigate other MC with you handling the work load. I suspect that the other Board members would support this move. Then contact other companies and similar associations to see what they are paying a management company. Compose a report and present it to the board along with a motion to solicit bids. I would suggest to make the issue about saving money to sway those on the Board who might not want to change or think you have a personality conflict with the current MC. Then add that in addition to saving money, the current issues might also be resolved.

Being a member of the Board gives you a few more options then a typical member would have.

Tim
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
The board hired the MC.

There is a contract between the two.

An individual member has no right or power to interfer between the two.

Work only as a board member to get what you want done.
MilesT (Texas)
Posts: 34
Posted:
AnnT3,

I disagree with Melissa in part. You have very right to question and take action regarding risk exposure of your property finances. You will find power in numbers and exposing the risk with hard examples should encourage your board to do what is in the best interest of the community. If you do this in the proper forum, it will be on the record. If the board ignores your concern and something bad happens as a result, you can fall back on the insurance carried on each board member.

If none of the above works and something bad happens, then you will have a solid case in court. They can't claim ignorance. I'm not sure how it works in Alabama, but in Texas one will find it hard to find a job with a record - even if it is "caught driving home by a police officer..."

Good luck!
AnnT3 (Delaware)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks MilesT. The battle has been won and the management company will be fired today. I believe it IS our business if the property manager does not have a valid drivers license. Our contract mandates one visit per week to the association. How can our manager effectively do this without a driver's license? If she ignores the law and drives her car without a license, she has no valid insurance. If something were to happen, the association would potentially be liable - especially since we knew this already. My intentions were not to stir up a lawsuit, but to bring attention to homeowners in order to push the board forward with something they claim they wanted to do anyway. If part of a person's job involves driving, how can they perform their job functions without a license? If this job didnt involve driving, it would not be my business and I wouldnt care.

Either way, my assumptions were correct. She attended the board meeting after having a drink (per her own admission) AND she drove herself. She is a self proclaimed "party girl" with a second job as a bartender. Result - unanimous vote to terminate. Letters go out certified mail tomorrow and I will hand deliver a copy as well. I do appreciate the feedback, whether I agree or not.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
So Ann you plan to hand deliver a copy yourself? And you do not serve on the Board? Sounds like you have alot vested in this and my question would be why?

So if someone you knew drives without a license you might be liable????

Have you read the MC contract? Are you familiar with the termination clause? Do you have a replacement picked or should I say does the Board have a replacement picked out?

Sometimes people get so shortsighted about doing what they want, they fail to prepare for when it happens. Please let us know how this works out for you with the transition from MC to MC and how the property manager youoworked to remove now behaves. It can get ugly.

You got what you wanted hope it works out for you and satisfies you.
MilesT (Texas)
Posts: 34
Posted:
AnnT3 - I'm glad that this worked out in the best interest of your property, but JonD1 has a valid point. You must run the traps on any long term impact this may have on your HOA. Regardless of her verbal confession, you need to look for applicable cause noted in your contract and cite it for termination and abide by any notice required. I'm sure you have done this, but just say'n.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Sounds like Ann is on a righteous crusade. How many property owners run background checks on people hired to manage their property? This is the first I have heard of.

Was this person convicted of theft? Misuse of funds? Robbery?

So people convicted of DWIs should not be able to work?

And the termination clause if violated might open the property up to a lawsuit.
You can't terminate someone because they were convicted of a crime. And perhaps the person was issued a conditional license. Maybe Ann has researched that too.

What bothers me the most is Ann's intention to hand deliver the termination notice. As just an interested third party with no legitimate role in this entire affair. Sounds like something unnecessary and petty if you ask me. Unless of course the Board is incapable of handling such a project.

Sounds to me like this property has more than a problem with the PM. Sounds like they can't draw a line between what's their role and what role one property owner fills.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JonD1 on 04/28/2011 10:30 AM

What bothers me the most is Ann's intention to hand deliver the termination notice. As just an interested third party with no legitimate role in this entire affair. Sounds like something unnecessary and petty if you ask me. Unless of course the Board is incapable of handling such a project.


Jon,

Based on Ann's previous posts in other threads, she is an elected member of her Board.

I understood that since she was having problems getting the rest of her board to decide (one way or the other) she started this thread to see what could be done as just a homeowner/member.

Ann,

As more specifics came out, I do support your efforts. Jon did make a point about the suspended license. The property manager could have gotten an exception for work and/or had someone else drive them - thereby still able to fulfill that section of the contract.

As Miles pointed out, it's important that the Association complies with any termination clause. I know you had posted that they were on a month to month contract, so there probably isn't too much concern except perhaps for notice requirements (x days notice).

Keep us posted with what happens and please continue to participate in this forum so you can provide insight to others going through similar issues.

I'm glad it worked out.

Tim
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Tim:

From the op on this thread Ann suggested she wanted to act as a homeowner not Board member. If she is in fact an elected member of the Board my concerns still stand.

Do you as an individual run criminal checks on PMs? Do you conern yourself that the PM's second job is as a bartender or whatever? Do you look down on someone who goes out socially because perhaps it doesn't follow your code of ethics.

Many people act in ways I would not choose to do. But if they do their jobs what they do for additional income or what they do on their time off is of no concern to me.

Sounds to me if you read between the lines Ann has an agenda she dug around finding what she considered dirt on the PM and presented in such a way as to convince the Board to act. At least that's the story. Her need to hand deliver the notice of termination speaks for itself to me. She was out to get her way and she intends to get her monies worth.

If everyone with a DWI charge or conviction were forced out of their jobs we would have many more unemployed people than we do now.

Guess now the property owners will find out just how green that grass is that Ann seems to see on the other side.............

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