💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ScottS14 (Washington)
Posts: 2
Posted:
A home owner has requested to build his fence on their property, but it falls in a ingress/egress easement. Should the board consult an attorney prior to review of his proposal? Note: the city planner reviewed his layout and was acceptable with it provided he recieved a signed letter from the HOA & layout of the fence with respect to the property lines.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Scott:

The definition from online Legal Dictionary:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/ingress

ingress 1) n. entrance. 2) the right to enter. 3) v. the act of entering. Often used in the combination "ingress and egress" which means entering and leaving, to describe one's rights to come and go under an easement over another's property.

My questions would potentially be:

1) What is the “ingress” and “egress” easement access to?

2) From your statements it appears the fence follows the city ordinances; however, does it also meet all qualifications of your governing documents?

While it is potentially good in questionable circumstances to consult an attorney, I also understand the necessity to reduce attorney fees when possible. However, I cannot in good conscience give a personal opinion on that aspect without further clarification.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
A HOA only needs a lawyer to represent them in COURT. It's free to make these type of decisions unless there is some kind of illegal component. Matter of fact, it was OUR responsibility as Board members to review someone's fence/modification plans and approve it. Just because the City approves it doesn't mean the HOA does.

It sounds like the city is waiting on the owner to present plans just like the HOA is. There's nothing wrong IF the HOA asks for modification to the plan IF they know or see an issue. I would be careful of denying it unless it's against the rules of having a fence. However, from experience not all fence plans are created equal.

We had a fence that we had to have the owner cut down to 4 ft on one section. It was a corner lot and we had a NO front yard fence rule. However, due to the layout of the land and front door, the plan looked like it could be the front yard. Plus the major part was at the 6 ft height, it blocked the view of a STOP sign at the intersection. The owner was approved for the fence as long as they tapered down the fence. It ended up looking good, fit the owner's need with her dogs, and it was approved by the HOA. It was denied originally.

I would skip the lawyer advice until things get to a point where the owner refuses to operate under the rules and acts on their own. So far I see a group willing to work together to get a fence buiilt.

Former HOA President
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Ingress/egress WHERE?

To a lake?
To another piece of property that may be landlocked?
Firelane?
Potential road out of the sub?

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ScottS14 on 04/17/2011 9:19 PM
A home owner has requested to build his fence on their property, but it falls in a ingress/egress easement. Should the board consult an attorney prior to review of his proposal? Note: the city planner reviewed his layout and was acceptable with it provided he recieved a signed letter from the HOA & layout of the fence with respect to the property lines.

No, an attorney is not needed - simply reasonable judgement. After reviewing the request the architectural committee can decide whether to approve it, approve it with modifications, or not approve it. If it is not approved or approved with modification(s) the reasons should be stated on the architectural request form.
ScottS14 (Washington)
Posts: 2
Posted:
To clarify: there is an access road running beside his house. the easement extend's 5 feet in to his propertly , which can for now be assumed to be the edge of the road he is in the process of getting the survey to find out where his property edge is (minor little detail the owner fogot to do before comming to us). The area in question is an ingress / egress easement for city and home owners as defined on the city plot.

My concern is that by approving him to build in the area, are we bring potential unknown risk to the HOA? The board does not have an issue with the home owner building the fence on his property out side the easement, we / or I should say I was just woundering if a real estate lawyer should be consulted before we approved him building on the easement.

As a side note our HOA & development is 5 years old so we are still developing our overall process for approving changes. Additionally a similar issue like this came up with a house in the neighborhood when it was being constructed. At the time the builder assumed the role of the HOA and would not allow the home owner to build on the easement (this was on a same type of access road). As such there is a precedents for us not approve.

Thank You for the advice.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Scott:

The homeowner needs to be sure and realize that anything constructed on an easement can be taken down for any reason to make any type of repairs to utilities or other items within said easement.

For example my lot has some utility easements; however, anything within that easement area (i.e., fence, landscaping, etc.) can be in essence “destroyed”. It is then up to me to make said repairs to any such items, as needed, if they are in essence destroyed with regards to access for easement repairs. In other words I chose whether or not to construct items within easement, but I am also responsible party with regards to potential future destruction of any said items.

Hope this makes sense …

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You do NOT use a Real Estate Attorney in a HOA unless your purchasing a home/property. A HOA is CORPORATION. The CC&R's are CONTRACTUAL agreements. They just happen to deal with real estate. If your going to hire a HOA lawyer, you get one familiar with corporate/business/contractual law. There are a few that specialize in HOA law. However, you may be shocked to find that many lawyers tend to shy away from HOA cases. I know some that won't touch them. It's NOT as easy to represent a HOA as you may think.

Be aware that lawyers may require not only a retainer fee, they ask for hourly rates, supply costs, court fees, and anytime they are contacted by phone, email, or in person. Retainers usually start out at 1500 if your lucky. So if you do hire a lawyer factor in up to 5K in expenses.

It's best to handle this situation amongst yourselves as the rules allow. Don't even listen to any empty "Lawsuit" talk make you run to the nearest lawyer either. If a HOA isn't being threatened with a lawsuit, then it's not doing it's job. Just make sure the HOA isn't doing anything to cause any threats for lawsuits or they have evidence proving their side.

Former HOA President

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here