Who owns the streets?

I live in an HOA platted and incorporated in 1996. The streets were not dedicated to any entity on the plat. The developer always told us they were private streets and we all like sheep just believed him. Our Declaration defines "Common Area" as all the real property shown on the plat less and except the numbered lots and includes an easement of enjoyment for members which is appurtenant to their title. The Declaration does not convey or promise to convey the common area to the association. The only common area shown on the plat and dedicated to the association are a couple of areas on either side of the entrance. The first lot was sold in 1996.

Florida statute 177.081 requires the plat to contain a dedication and approval by the governing municipal body. F.S. 177.081(2) also states all areas shown on the plat are deemed dedicated to the public unless otherwise stated.

"(2) When a tract or parcel of land has been subdivided and a plat thereof bearing the dedication executed by the developers and mortgagees having a record interest in the lands subdivided and the approval of the governing body has been secured and recorded in compliance with this chapter, all streets, alleys, easements, rights-of-way, and public areas shown on such plat, unless otherwise stated, shall be deemed to have been dedicated to the public for the uses and purposes thereon stated. However, nothing herein shall be construed as creating an obligation upon any governing body to perform any act of construction or maintenance within such dedicated areas except when the obligation is voluntarily assumed by the governing body."

The City also claims they are private streets because the developer intended them to be and had conversations with city officials stating they would be private. We were told by the city planner that the streets are shown as common area on the county property appraiser's tax records. Our developer was the mayors son!

The developer transitioned the association to the members in 2000 and quit claimed his interest in all the land and property as described on the plat less and except the numbered lots.

My question is did the developer have any interest to convey? Weren't these areas all deemed dedicated to the public? How can you disposses the public from property deemed dedicated?

Would love to hear all thoughts.

We maintain the streets because we believed they were private and because they are common area we do not want to have someone hurt due to negligent maintenance. The streets are not gated. Recently I found a maintenance agreement the developer had with the city to maintain all required improvements for two years. The city accepted responsibility for all required improvements after the two year period. There were no exclusions from the required improvements accepted. However the city maintains the streets are private.

Carolyn,

A discussion with an attorney to give you options shouldn't be too expensive. $1,000 to $1,500 if they dug into it a little. Much less if they don't do a lot of research.

It can't hurt to get the opinion and then decide if you want to "fight city hall".

The financial advantage of having the streets maintained by the city is obvious. The downfall could be the level of maintenance they provide (perhaps milling and paving less often then currently being done).

Tim

Its not public, its private. He had an interest and quit claimed it to the association. Association member have the right to use the road. (and maintain it) Sounds pretty common and legit to me.

I should also say there are other subdivisions in our city where the streets are dedicatied to the public on the plat yet are still defined as common area in the declaration. Common area in a Florida HOA is not always titled to the association.

F.S. 720.301
(2) “Common area” means all real property within a community which is owned or leased by an association or dedicated for use or maintenance by the association or its members, including, regardless of whether title has been conveyed to the association:
(a) Real property the use of which is dedicated to the association or its members by a recorded plat; or
(b) Real property committed by a declaration of covenants to be leased or conveyed to the association.

Thank you all for your input. I have every document that can be found including permits and letters sent to city officials which I obtained through the freedom of information act. I have reason to believe the streets are not private but I can't convince others this would be worth looking into. Some members want the streets to be private and want to rely on the city telling us it is. So there we have it. Thanks again to all.

Simple check: What type of street signs do you have? Are they hand-made or like the city's? Do you have stop/yield signs? or are they personalized? If the city own's the streets you will have street signs like every street in the city. You will also have stop/yield signs too. If you have hand-made or specialized unique signs then your roads are most likely private. The city does NOT allow personalized signs typically.

Our streets were PRIVATE and in the COUNTY when the developer had the property. WE had to incorporate into the city in order to get SEPARATE water meters for our property. The HOA had control of the ONE water meter and could turn it off if you didn't pay. When the Water system said we could pay them $20K and get separate water meters, we also had to change over to CITY streets. We no longer had control on roads as they were PUBLIC. We also had to make this change in our CC&R's to reflect the streets were public and we had separate water meters.

So I would say depending on what type of signs and possible utilities in your HOA/neighborhood would lead you to know what the status is. If it is PUBLIC, then that needs to be changed in your CC&R's. Which is another huge undertaking and a different subject matter.

Hi Carolyn:

You might call around and see if an attorney will offer a “free" consultation. Some attorneys will allow maybe 30 minute consultation in which they might give you an answer or they can at least give you an estimated dollar figure for determining the answer. If the owners have an estimated figure to consider, you may get more involvement.