Just purchased house HOA not allowing Fence

Started by ChristopherJ • 24 replies • 6764 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

ChristopherJ (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I just purchased a house in January from the bank (foreclosed) in a fairly new subdivision. In all my closing papers there was nothing to do with a HOA. Today I started laying out the outline for the fence and a person from the neighborhood stopped by and said I could not build a fence because the association will not allow it.

1) we never signed any HOA agreement, however our neighbors both did
2) no one in the subdivision pays HOA fee's
3) there was nothing in our closing documents when we bought the house regarding the HOA
4) the HOA does not enforce other items they are supposed to such as cars parked in the street or trailers in the driveway.

From my understanding at this point, my land is my land and I can build whatever I want on it as long as it meets city ordinance, because I did not sign a HOA. I contacted the City and they stated the fence was perfectly fine according to their guidelines.

Am I correct in my thinking?
Thank you in advance, any input is greatly appreciated and helpful.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Christopher, you may not be correct in your thinking. If there are Covenants which apply to the property you purchased then you must comply with the restrictions in those Covenants. It appears there are since you stated "the HOA does not enforce other items they are supposed to such as.... " If you purchased propety in a subdivision which is Covenant controlled then you did sign some papers at closing which bound you to those Covenants.

ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244

Posted:

Christopher, I purchased a home under the exact conditions you just outlined. It occurred to me to simply "exempt myself" from the association and to be perfectly honest, I think I would have had a case. In the end I chose to get involved in the process instead, but cases like ours are going to be more and more common. I am curious to see what happens (legally) when someone challenges it in court.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Christopher,

Check your deed and contact your title company to verify if covenants are attached to your property. If they are, you belong to the Association and must comply with the rules and regulations.

If you feel you were not properly informed, your issue would be with the title company, the realtor and the closing company not>/b> the Association.

Tim

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi Christopher:

As Tim stated … I would recommend you first of all check your title insurance policy and see if there is any information listed regarding the Declaration of CCR’s or other HOA documents. If not, then call them and describe the situation in that you purchased property and there was no disclosure that the property was an HOA. See what they say … they will potentially know if certain disclosures are required by law.

I am not sure in your state the required disclosures, but you might also check your closing documents and see if there was a part where this was supposed to be marked, disclosed, and what statements in that section are made regarding said disclosure. Michigan does not have very good statutes regarding HOA’s, so it may also unfortunately come down to due diligence on the part of buyers.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is the BUYER's responsibility to be informed about IF an HOA exists. The information should be available at your local courthouse in the RECORDS department. There should be a record of "Convenants & Restrictions" or Articles of Incorporation".

I would ask the neighbor who do I ask about getting permission? Find out and simply submit your idea/plans to them. Fences might NOT be banned but just need PERMISSION to build. There are many factors involved in installing a fence. It's NOT just "Put one up".

We had a situation where the property was at a corner lot. The owner wanted a 6 ft Privacy fence. We allowed fences in the BACKYARD but NOT the front. The way her fence would have been installed would have come into her front yard due to the corner lot layout. Plus the fence would have blocked views of Stop/Road signs which is illegal according to the City who maintained the roads/street signs. We were able to grant her permission by modifying the fence height. It was 6 Ft to her side/front door (Our front doors are on the SIDE of the house) and then it tapered to a 4Ft height to the corner. It looked good and allowed her to keep her dogs outside. If we hadn't worked with her, then the city could have fined us and forcing us to remove the fence entirely at the owner's expense.

I've also heard of many people digging into the sprinkler systems, causing flooding due to the blockage, blocking views, and other issues with fences. I agree that fences make the best neighbors but ONLY if it is done right.

Former HOA President

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Wow here's a wild thought why not ask the HOA? Why not bother to take the time to contact the HOA IF it in fact exists and ASK THEM?

Unless of course you wish to continue making decisions based on what someone walking though the neighborhood says.

There is no "I agree to abide by the documents of the association" form. The fact he didn't sign one or you don't remember doesn't matter.

Understanding this was a foreclosure I would guess you were in and out with everyone in the room especially those selling the property looking to get done and leave. My guess they were what you might call "highly" motivated.

There is an old say let the BUYER beware.
And if a deal sounds to good it probably is..........

Seems the fact this OP has not heard one word from anyone actually in the HOA leadership sheds some light as to their understanding and ability to handle this matter in a rational and logical way.

The HOA is already the problem in the mind of this owner and yet they have not heard one word from the HOA.

IMO this site has certainly lost its way. " A positive place for community assocaition leaders to share ideas and learn" seems to have become "a place where people who didn't know they bought into an HOA, don't wish to live under the governing documents of an HOA, are looking to change their HOAs but can't seem to gather enough votes to win a position on the Board, who believe the HOA rules are no good when they apply to them, are looking for government to make laws to allow THEIR view of HOA living to exist, and of course those that feel everyone should make exceptions for their behavior because they are after all "special".

Certainly there must be another site for this sort of discussion. If not please let someone create one.

ChristopherJ (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

JonD1...

I don't know what it is that has you so agitated, but I for one do not appreciate your assumptions about my character. I simply jumped on this forum because this is my first house, and I have no idea when it comes to HOA's. Did it every occur to YOU that maybe I did try and contact the HOA, and maybe I was in the procees of talking to them? Did it ever occur to YOU that maybe right after I posted this on the forum, I walked to my neightbor and asked how to get in contact with the HOA? did it ever occur to YOU that I might be handling this in a rational and logical way, but maybe wanted a little input from people who deal with HOA's every day?

you stated...
"sheds some light as to their understanding and ability to handle this matter in a rational and logical way."

maybe you should look in the mirror and say this statement to yourself before you start assuming things about people who you have never met. Because the only person on this thread who has not taken their post considerations in a rational and logical way is you...

On top of that, what determines a foreclosure is a good deal and it is probably too good to be true? again sir, assumptions.... for all you know my house foreclosed could have been as much as yours brand new....

To finalize, you said that "there must be another site for this sort of discussion, if not please let someone create one" maybe you should also heed your own words and go create a site where you can go assume things about individuals and make unfair comments and cruel accusations about them... because you are clearly not needed here.

I will not respond back to you if you post again with some smart comment to try and justify yourself. This is simply just my two cent's to JonD1, and I wanted to express my discontent and utter lack of respect that I have for you due to your post.

ChristopherJ (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Everyone,
Thank you for all your comments, just a quick update.
I contacted my title company, realtor, and lender as well as attempted to get ahold of the HOA. It turns out the HOA was thrown out by a judge a little less then a year ago. However, I do want to make sure there are no other covenants etc. on my title before I continue further. You all have been very helpful, and I would not have known even where to start the process about finding out this information if it wasn't for you.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

So I guess Chris should find that neighbor who told him all about the HOA, the fact they don't allow fences and their not enforcing the rules and explain to them the HOA doesn't exist.

And perhaps Chris should reread his post implying all the information he had gathered to support his views against a non-existent HOA.

"HOA not allowing Fence" guess Chris jumped the gun...............

And just to be clear Chris ( no need to reply) I didn't assume anything I went by what you wrote and afterwards you add more information and suggest I was in error. Why didn't you provide that information in the first place???

Don't bother I really don't care.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi Christopher:

Thank you for the update. I am curious as to how did you find out in essence the HOA was dissolved by a judge last year? Knowing how exactly you obtained the information for your situation could help others down the road when reading this thread.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

It sounds like the previous property owner claimed he was NOT part of the HOA and the HOA sued, and it was dismissed. Before you do anything, you should get the record of the case.

OR

It sounds like the HOA claimed he was WAS part of the HOA and the previous owner sued, and it was dismissed because it is in the HOA.

Either way, get a copy of the court records.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

The HOA may, or may not, be 'dissolved'.

The issue is: ARE THERE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS ON FILE WITH THE DEED?

Go to your 'registrar of deeds' at the county seat and check your deed PERSONALLY!

This is only a minor nuisance

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Oh yeah....

I've seen some people remove the HOA from their deed. This does nothing. A simple title search will reveal that they are part of the HOA and somewhere along the line, some idiot removed it thinking it would change anything.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Christopher:

Steve has a good point to pull a copy of the court record and which would describe the situation. It would be a good idea to potentially have a copy in your files anyway in case you need to reference in the future.

Also as JohnB stated check the official copy of your Warranty Deed. Potentially a copy should have been mailed to you shortly after closing on the home, and see if the covenants are mentioned.

Do you know if there is any common property to be maintained? The only thing that comes to my mind on why a judge would in essence “throw out” as you stated is if there was no common property to maintain.

ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244

Posted:

Chris don't take what John says personally - from what I have seen he is one of the most negative posters on here. Sorry but this forum is OPEN TO EVERYONE. Until that changes, everyone one has right to a civil dialogue on anything related to HOA's. You have the right to ignore topics that you feel are irrelevant. What you do not have the right to do is police the board and try to monitor/discourage honest questions.

Some would be happier on a forum with carefully screened members that would do nothing other than sing the praises of HOA's - why not direct your energies into creating one?

This medium is a lively and helpful place for many seeking answers, lets keep it that way.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

I believe y'all miss my point, or I failed to comunicate properly.

With or without an HOA covenants and restrictions may still apply.

One may have a voluntary HOA w/o covenants.

One may have covenants attached to one's property w/o an HOA.

Generally speaking, if there are common elements and mandatory dues/assesments there would be a HOA (usually inc. as a not-for-profit) ... if this HOA was 'disbanded' by a court the common elements would STILL HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED/FUNDED ...

If no common elements and a court 'disbanding the HOA' .... there still MAY be covenants and restrictions attached to the property deed in question

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Go to your 'registrar of deeds' at the county seat and check your deed PERSONALLY!

This was meant for your own protection, not as a criticism.

GinaJ1 (Florida)
Posts: 14

Posted:

The easiest way to start finding any restrictions on your land is to look at the title insurance and see what runs with your land. If there is a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, it should like the book and page where it covers your land. Does your county have the court records online? If so, you can probably research from the comforts of your home.

ChristopherJ (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Just an update on the situation

I called the following people...

The title company states - "There are no HOA's or deed restrictions on the title property"
Our realtor says - "there was no HOA in the papers at closing"
The Lender says - "That has nothing to do with me"
Neighbor 1 says - "there is a HOA but we don't know how to get in contact"
Neighbor 2 says - "I've never heard anything about an HOA"
Neighbor 3 says - "There used to be an HOA but it was dissolved in court"
Neighbor 4 says - "there is a HOA, but they don't enforce anything and we don't know how to get in contact"
The Township says - "The plan to build a fence meets our criteria but I do know this subdivision in particular has some deed restrictions"

I guess my next step would be the County, and or the Seller's Realtor? The problem here is that everyone's information contradicts with everyone else. The most confusing part is the Township says there are restrictions while the titile company says there is no HOA or title restrictions at all...

ChristopherJ (Michigan)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Also I am going to attempt to check the registrar of deeds online or personally at the courthouse in our county. I will update when I know more

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

I would check with the neighbor's and get the name of the potential disolved HOA then check the court records for any court cases involving the HOA name. Potentially the court document could solve the mystery.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Chris - are you in a condo, detached condo, indivudual homes, moblie home park or what/

Someone at the realtor end should have told you that this was an association property.

Did the listing say anything?

Have you been billed for dues?
Were dues mentioned at the closing?

LauraL5 (Illinois)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Are you a board member? If you were, you would be inforcing these policies and know about them. Here is the deal; Just because you are not in church doesnt mean you can break the commandments, just because the teacher isnt watching means you can cheat, and when your are married just because you read the menue doesnt mean you eat! Dude, its called integrity! Live it, Love it or sell it! Good luck.

LauraL5 (Illinois)
Posts: 5

Posted:

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement