Dog Feces

Started by DavidA7 • 14 replies • 5178 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Hello All,

We have a renter who is constantly using an HOA common area greass area to allow her dog to deficate and then is not cleaning-up after the dog. We even cleaned-up for her and left the bag in front of the grass area so it was obvious. She continued. Then this weekend she let her dog out and didn't see one of the other Board Members in another part of property and when she saw the Board member she scooped up her dog and ran back into her unit. We have issued 3 complaints over past 3 months that resulted in 2 warning letters and 1 fine letter but problem is still occurring. Yes, eventually the Owner may get his head out of water and stop his renter from allowing this to happen but here really is my question.

In our Rules, Policies and Procedures it states something along lines of animals are not allow to deficate on common area HOA owned property. The previous Boards did not enforce this rule. We are new Board and wonder if we can now start enforcing this policy.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

yes you may enforce starting now ... but enforce a specific rule for ALL (violators).

re: the renter .... the violation notice(s) and/or fines would be against the OWNER (who has the obligation to the HOA) not the 'tenant' (who's only contractural obligation is to the rentor).

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

OK, the RPP are silent on the remedies which I think are only to fine.

MikeV (New Mexico)
Posts: 31

Posted:

YES, you can and obviously should start enforcing now; however, enforcement cannot be selective. ALL violators need to be treated the same (homeowners and renters treated equally). If it has become common and accepted practice for a large number of pets to use the common areas as their bathroom, perhaps a letter should go to all owners first, letting them know that while the rule has not been enforced in the past, it will be enforced now. This will at least give some time for people to understand and comply before you begin enforcement.

Additionally, I would continue to fine the specific homeowner whose renter is not cleaning up after their pet. Eventually the homeowner will get fed up and force the renter to be financially liable for the fines. Perhaps the renter will get the point that what they are doing is unacceptable.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

We get a similar issue; however, it is not the homeowner’s pets but instead individuals from other subdivisions who are walking with their pets and allowing them to take a dump in our common area grass as they pass by using the walking trails. We are considering having one of the small poles installed with poop bag dispenser, trash can, and small sign stating local city ordinance about cleaning up after your pets. Some people just have no respect for other property. Unfortunately cannot fine if they do not live in our HOA.

David … you might look at the fine schedule your HOA has and check your documents and statutes about potentially increasing for subsequent offenses. If it gets more and more expensive for violating then it could possibly be a good deterrent.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

I heard of an association in NH doing DNA evidence on poop.

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Taking a picture of the dog in the act and sending it to the owner might work.
Jeanne

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Here it is:

Refuse To Scoop, Pay The Price
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/10/refuse-to-scoop-pay-the-price.html

http://www.pooprints.com/

NH case study
http://www.pooprints.com/press.asp

So basically..........
Register each dog's DNA is $29.95 (paid for by owner)
Processing of poop samples $49.95 (paid for by association, reimbursed by dog owner + fine)

DianaB4 (Oregon)
Posts: 13

Posted:

City ordinances should cover this kind of thing since it is unsanitary. Have you checked those??? City, state laws always trump HOA ccrs. At least here in Oregon they do.

BrianK1 (Colorado)
Posts: 54

Posted:

We have 20 townhomes, no management company, and no fines. As a volunteer, my goal is compliance not punishment. If the owners want strict compliance by levying fines I would ask the Board to contract with a management company to notify, hold hearings in their office space, levy escalating fines for violations, and work with an attorney to defend the Association in case owners contest their fines in court. The owner/landlord of the townhome that I consider to be the worst offender happens to be an attorney. With no management company and no fines, I have to find an alternative solution. One owner asked me to have her neighbor's dogs removed from the property where they are kept. Attempting to accomplish that could be an expensive proposition.

Our 29 year old boilerplate Declaration of Covenants says that if an owner violates a rule that results in damage to the common area, the Board has the right (after notice and hearing) to make the cost of 'repair' a part of the owner's assessment. This language is almost all I have to work with from the Declaration. The two pooper-scooper services in town charge $10 per visit and those would need to be weekly, the day before mowing day, to prevent the landscape maintenance company from canceling their contract, which they have threatened to do because of the continuing problem. So, I believe that the Declaration gives the Association the right, but I want documentation first.

The Code Enforcement division of City Neighborhood Services stresses that they do not enforce subdivision covenants. They want me to follow a procedure to work with them. First, I mail a violation letter to the owner. If the Association rule violation is still not corrected, then I contact Code Enforcement. A violation is found only if there is an excessive accumulation of dog feces. That means if they find only a couple of piles, there is no violation of city ordinance. One owner has been cited several times for excessive accumulations and I get copies of the violation notices from City Hall. Now I have documentation.

If I think I have all my ducks in a row with notification and documentation, the next step is for me to consult with an attorney about adding the Association's scooper service bill to the owner's monthly assessment, for as long as the dogs are kept at the property. So once added, the cost of the scooper service bill would be removed from the assessment only if the Board decides to do that, whether or not the dogs are still kept there.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I addressed this issue in our HOA. It got results. We had a common area near the pool. It had a basketball goal but it was ALL grass area. The owners were letting their dogs run rampant in that area and kids' could no longer play there. Plus it dragged it into the back entrance to the pool area.

What I did was got a cheap metal wire fence and stretched it across the area as much as possible. I placed signs every few feet. Those signs reflected the FACT that I had put Dog/Cat Deterrent in the area. You can buy this for $8 + a bag. It's called Dog/Cat Repellent and available at Home Improvement stores. (Walmart/Kmart too). I put the stuff out and cleaned up most of the poo. It doesn't last that long and you want to make sure there's no rain in the forecast for a day or two. I also dedicated some common areas near the dumpster and front entrance as "Dog Poo Allowed sites".

As you can expect, the WORST offenders came a calling. They complained that the Repellent smell bothered their sinuses and made them ill. Admittedly it did smell a bit but much better than dog poo. However, I stopped treating the area with the repellent and just used the signs instead. They never knew the difference!

I have 2 dogs myself and understand the issue first hand. That's why I addressed it as if it were my home. I've even put the stuff down to get rid of cats out of flowerbeds at other owner's homes. It's not that expensive and may be an option to check into. It's safe for humans/animals, but NOT complaint proof...

Former HOA President

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 04/11/2011 11:30 AM
We get a similar issue; however, it is not the homeowner’s pets but instead individuals from other subdivisions who are walking with their pets and allowing them to take a dump in our common area grass as they pass by using the walking trails. We are considering having one of the small poles installed with poop bag dispenser, trash can, and small sign stating local city ordinance about cleaning up after your pets. Some people just have no respect for other property. Unfortunately cannot fine if they do not live in our HOA.

David … you might look at the fine schedule your HOA has and check your documents and statutes about potentially increasing for subsequent offenses. If it gets more and more expensive for violating then it could possibly be a good deterrent.

However, you can use photographic evidence to pursue TRESPASS charges since the lawn component has been damaged by their 'pets' waste ... canine urine WILL damage grass.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

We had a neighbor place a box of bags on a pole in the area. That actually helped a lot.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Hi John:

Thought about that, but instead could provide to city to issue citation. My thought was trespass would potentially require appropriate signs to that effect and which might be an issue. Here in new subdivisions the city requires 1 or 2 “park” type areas as the common open space for the subdivision. A darn half block away is one of the posts I described above with waste pickup bags that everyone is suppose to grab and have in case their pet does their business so they can clean up while on the trails.

Hmm … now that I am thinking about that I should check with the city about maybe moving that item down next to our common area as the initial part of the trail is sidewalk between two fences until it opens up just before our property area. Might be worth at least asking and maybe save us the cost of the items, if they will move the current station to where it would potentially be better utilized.

GregoryM2 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I have seen these stations with a small plastic bag dispenser and trash container that might help. Add one of the scoopers with a small rake might help as well to make it more convienent for people to clean up after their pets. Perhaps a dog park is in order. Just start with a fence, gate and a bench. The HOA can expand from there every year depending on the budget.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here