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GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
I live in a condominium community in Connecticut. We the unit owners contacted an attorney, reviewed the bylaws and Connecticut's Common Interest Owenrship Act that becamed effective/law in July 2010. A petition was devised and we collected 63 signatures to call for a special meeting. Our bylaws and state statutes state that we only need 20% of the unit owners signatures, their are 218 units in the community. We only needed 44 signatures to call the special meeting. We sent the signatures to the secretary and waited 17 days to receive a response. The secretary never responded so the unit owners mailed/hand delivered our notice notifying the unit owners of the date, time and place of the meeting. We arraigned to have the meeting for the removal of the president, secretary, and a director. On March 28, 2011, the organizers of the meeting went to the door of our meeting room and rang the president's door-bell who lives upstairs. Needless to say the president did not respond. We then moved the meeting across the way to a unit owners garage due to lighting issues. The voting was for the removal without cause. The meeting was conducted by the unit owners guided by Roberts Rules of Order. The owners signed in, received their ballots and the results were 74 to remove, 6 not to remove, and 1 abstained. We sent the board of directors a certified letter with the results.The board members are ignoring the unit owners special meeting and results.Any advice. We have made an appointment to consult with a attorney.

Gary
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
You should have gone to court to compel the Board to hold a special meeting.

Even though you were very organized, you can't just make up your own meeting if the Board doesn't respond. Your meeting was unofficial and the vote irrelevant.

Like you say, you should hire a lawyer so you can proceed ahead and get the Board officially removed.
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
The Connecticut state statutes and our bylaws allow us to organize a unit owners special meeting if the secretary chooses to ignore our petition, We are entitled by state statute to conduct the meeting as long as we follow the protocal.

1) Allow 15 days for secretary to send out notices for the special meeting.
2) Hand deliver/mail the notices for the date,time and place of special meeting.
3) Have a specific agenda.
4) Give the unit owners 10 days from the date of receiving notice to attend special meeting

Thanks
gary
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Gary,

I have not read the laws you mentioned. I do see some potential issues:

Petition - Proof of receipt

1) How did you send the petition? It will be up to you to verify that the Association received the petition. If it was sent via certified mail, then the receipt would have been your proof.

2) Did you contact the Board in that 17 days? Goes back to proof of the Board receiving the petition and having time to verify the signatures.

3) Did the Board have a scheduled board meeting within those 17 days? Typically, the Board would have brought up the petition issue at the next scheduled Board meeting. Unless there is something within the law establishing a time line for the meeting, the Board would not be required to act upon it until then.

4) How was the petition worded? A petition that calls for the removal of board members is not the same as a petition calling for a special meeting to remove board members. Yes, it's a technicality but, as they say, the devil is in the details.

Notice of Meeting

1) How did you notify the membership of the new location? - this is another detail. One could argue that the change in locations required a new meeting notice to all of the membership. Not just to those that might have shown up and saw a note on the door. You would have done better to have had the meeting in the hallway outside the meeting room vs. moving it to a new loacation.

2) Did the initial notice comply with governing documents meeting notice time line? Any notice must be within the specified time frame. Typically anywhere from 15 to 60 day notice is required. You will need to check both your governing documents and CT law to see if you complied with any notice requirement.

3) Did the notice go to everyone? Notice of meetings must be sent to all owners, including those who are non-resident. If the development has non-resident owners, and no notice was sent to them about the special meeting, any action of that meeting would be invalid if challenged.

I'm not trying to dampen your achievement. I'm just pointing out some possible issues that you should be able to address when you get advise from your attorney.

Tim

GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Petition

Responses

Question 1) The petition was sent to the secretary by certified mail, to the condo office, have the receipt
dated.

2) The president questioned several of the unit owners about their signatures, actually she told
several of the signers that she could not assist them because they signed the petition.

3) Our state statutes states that we have to wait only 15 days to receive notices from the secretary
if non are received then we are entitled to send our own.

4) The petition calls for a special meeting for the removal of the three stated board members.

Notice 1) All of the unit owners meetings have been in our meeting room for over 25 years. Our attorney
told us to hold it outside so we were in the same are as the office.
2) Our notice of the meeting was within the 10 days meaning when distibuted 12 days ---2 for
mailing time.
3) The notice was sent to every owner----we hand delivered 156 and mailed 62.We have the list
of all owners---we mailed out 62 envelopes for non-residents.

I appreciate your help---thanks
Gary

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
You can do that in Connecticut? Great!

Your next step would be to wrestle all the official documents and bank accounts and other authority from the Board.

If you know where the HOA bank account is, you could try going to the bank and convincing them to give you authority over it. They might refuse and require you to get a court order.

If there is a management company and they are not complying, you'll have to give notice to terminate the contract for cause. If they do comply, you'll have to continue the contract or possibly face legal threats.

If Board Members refuse the provide documents, you can sue them or get the documents from somewhere else (or make do without them).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Gary,

Based on your posting it sounds like you have your ducks in a row. Good luck and let us know how you were advised to proceed so others in a similar situation can benefit.

Tim
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks Tim

The unit owners have had enough of the present individual and her two cronies(3 board members)-----the community is deteriorating ----I own 4 units in this community and my investments are loosing their appeal.

The unit owners are compiling all their concerns --so when we meet this saturday with the attorney for consultation we are going to discuss these concerns.The list of issues continues to grow.

Thanks
Gary
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks Daniel

The problem is their are still several board members left---we did not vote them off----in the certifed letter sent to the board with the voting results we requested information on what actions they intend to take to confirm the removal of the three board members.

We are a self-managing community----this is a good thing----we have had numerous issues with previous management companies and feel the money could be better spent on community improvements.

Thanks
Gary

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
You'll have to play it as it comes.

If some of the former Board Members refuse to recognize the outcome out your petition, you may have to give them a court order or, in an extreme circumstance, hire security to remove them from the meeting.

If some of the current Board Members insist on recognizing former Board Members as current Board Members, you may have to recall those Board Members as well. If they leave the meeting to cause a loss of quorum, they possibly could be removed for non-attendance.

At some point, I have to think that they'll accept the results, one way or another.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryR6 on 04/04/2011 3:49 PM

The unit owners are compiling all their concerns --so when we meet this saturday with the attorney for consultation we are going to discuss these concerns.The list of issues continues to grow.

Gary,

Unless you want a great big legal bill for advise on the concerns, I would suggest that you keep the discussion centered on the election, the election results and how to move forward. Leave the concerns for the new Board to address.

Tim
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Gary:

I have several concerns about the situation you find yourself in.

What type of relationship have you had with this Board before you organized this petition? I would imagine there was some conflict. Yes?

And if as you suggest the owners seem to support your efforts why out of 218 did only 80 bother to show up at your meeting to vote?

That gives you about 37% support on the property.

I would guess this matter if followed through with will require a determination be made in court. IF you have followed all the requirements to the letter of the law and you meeting and vote was held to the oletter of the law all you have done is remove the three members you listed on your petition.

But as some have suggested YOU now run down to the bank and take over the property's accounts well YOU and those sigining the petition to remove the 3 members have no legal right to take over control of anything.

And the suggestion you take control of documents and other property of the association well in my limited opinion that would be a huge mistake. Along with hiring security to remove people. Nonsense.

I am concerned that those Board members you did not target have failed to make contact with YOU in any manner. It suggests to me they do NOT support your efforts or wish to sit this one out.

Does your property hold monthly open meetings? Have you attended?

Does the Board have an attorney?

The silence you suggest from the entire Board suggests they might plan to fight this action together and that will result in legal bills that most properties find difficult to afford.

IF you have acted in accordance with all requirements you have removed 3 members this does not entitle you or any member of your group to now take over the operation of the property IMO. YOU are not members of the Board.

My opinion would be discuss this with an attorney who is familiar with the state condo laws in CT and ask them how you should proceed and just curious how long this action might take and the final cost. Are YOU willing to foot that legal bill? Because maybe the Board might be using property funds to fight your actions. I would not assume anything differently at this point as you have heard nothing from them.

In the real world holding meetings and elections is less than 1/2 the battle and it might be possible you will now have a fight on your hands. The three people you attmepted to vote out might not deal with this well and as you suggest the President's comment she could not help some owner because they signed the petition well that gives me some idea of what you have in store.

Good luck and please keep us updated. I will be interested in finding out how this ends.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Gary:

I agree with what Tim posted as a good idea to help minimize legal costs. The concerns are items the new board would need to address anyway and if legal advice is needed down the road it can be obtained at that time.

The important item to conclude in order to move the association forward is the current situation in which removal of the board has been initiated and the need for appointment of members to replace removed board members.

It appears you had a fairly decent turnout with 52% or 81 out of 156 owners who physically reside in your association showing up for the meeting. You potentially could have had more if your state statute required more time for scheduling of meeting in that the 62 non-residents would have had the extra time to potentially mail in a proxy or vote.

It appears the removal is as you have stated per your statutes:

Sec. 47-250. Meetings. Rules.

(a) The following requirements apply to unit owner meetings:

(2) An association shall hold a special meeting of unit owners if its president, a majority of the executive board, or unit owners having at least twenty per cent, or any lower percentage specified in the bylaws, of the votes in the association request that the secretary call the meeting. If the association does not notify unit owners of a special meeting within fifteen days after the requisite number or percentage of unit owners request the secretary to do so, the requesting members may directly notify the unit owners of the meeting. Only matters described in the meeting notice required by subdivision (3) of this subsection may be considered at a special meeting;

Sec. 47-261d. Removal of officers and directors.

(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the declaration or bylaws to the contrary, unit owners present in person or by proxy at any meeting of the unit owners at which a quorum is present, or voting by ballot pursuant to subsection (d) of section 47-252, may remove any member of the executive board or any officer elected by the unit owners, with or without cause, if the number of votes cast in favor of removal exceeds the number of votes cast in opposition to removal, except that: (1) A member appointed by the declarant may not be removed by a vote of the unit owners during the period of declarant control; (2) a member appointed under subsection (g) of section 47-245 may be removed only by the person that appointed that member; and (3) the unit owners may not consider whether to remove a member of the executive board or an officer elected by the unit owners at a meeting of the unit owners unless that subject was listed in the notice of the meeting or in the notice of the vote by ballot.

What I found interesting is the removal section did not stipulate a follow up meeting to appoint new board members. Therefore, do the remaining board members fill the vacancies as noted in the below statute?

Sec. 47-245. Executive board members and officers. Duties. Period of declarant control: Delivery of property and documents by declarant; current financial statement.

(3) Elect members of the executive board, except that the executive board may fill vacancies in its membership for the unexpired portion of any term or, if earlier, until the next regularly scheduled election of executive board members; or

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Gary - please state what the vote threshhold is for removing board members.

you said there were 218 members. What was the quorum requirement and then, what does it say about the numbers of votes needed to remove the board?
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Thanks Tim

Your advice is sound-----we just have some very upset unit owners in our community---this current president has come and gone from this board over a 20 year period----shame on us for allowing it to persist this long.

thanks again
Gary
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hello John:

Our bylaws state that the board should consist of 9 members----due to many issues the present board consists of 4 members---I have just resigned as the treasurer due to the control of this just voted off president---she would not allow the bookkeeper to communicate with me in regards to the accounts payables, receivables, income statements, vendors, etc.

Over the last 25 years we always had monthly meetings, this now voted off president informed the unit owners in a newsletter that SHE no longer permits monthly meetings??????

The now voted off president had/has informed the our associations attorney that she is the only contact--the now voted off president???????

We did not attempt to vote them off---we did vote them off---

With the three voted off we only have one board member left----and the now voted off president just sent that only remaining board member a letter saying her and the secretary removed the only remaing board member from the board??????

The only remaining board member also voted the three board members off ----she owns two units in the community
and has many problems with the manipulating control of this removed president.
GaryR6 (Connecticut)
Posts: 33
Posted:
Hello Susan:

Quorom---in our bylaws---Article III-Section 3.10 state --except as otherwise provided in these bylaws, the unit owners present in person or by proxy, at any meeting of unit owners, shal constitute a quorum at such meeting.

Majority Vote --bylaws---Artcile III- Section 3.11 ---- The vote of a majority of the unit owners present in person or by proxy at a meeting at which a quorum shall be present shall be binding upon all unit owners.

Connecticut Common Interest Owenrship Act Chapter 828

Section 47-252 Voting, Ballots

2) Unless a greater number or fraction of the votes in the association is required by this chapteror other law or declaration, a majority of the votes cast is the decision of the unit owners.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Gary:

If I read your posts correctly in one you state there are still several Board members you did not vote them all off.

Then today you explain you are supposed to have 9 but for some reason that was down to 4 and your group voted just three of them off leaving now ONE rather than the "several" you mentioned previously.

Why the change in your story?

And your comment you DID vote them off well with all due respect neither you or anyone else other than more than likely a judge will make that determination.

Sounds to me like the folks you attempted to remove have no plans to ride off quietly into the night becuase you had a meeting and vote. That's always a possibility that many times people fail to consider.

Sounds like you now have quite a mess on your hands with you claiming you were successful and maybe three members of the Board not accepting your claims.

One of the problems with state laws and property documents is most lack any enforcement. You held a meeting you held a vote and now you expect the other side to just pack up and leave. They decide not to accommodate your wishes and dig their heels in what's your next move?

Seems like a stand-off to me and to settle this as I suggested you might be forced to hire an attorney take the matter to court and pay for this battle out of your own pocket or pockets.

My guess there is far more to this story than what you have related here.

And to me it seems now your property might end up paying quite a price for this.

DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Gary,

I live in Ct. too. We removed our board in 2007. 20% of owners called a meeting. Our difference being that the association attorney moderated the removal meeting and then he moderated the election meeting which immediately followed. In the removal meeting two board members were removed and then the rest(5) just quit.

Since you didn't have a second meeting to elect new board members, off the top of my head it seems to me like the remaining sitting board members can now elect new people to fill the open positions. Then that group would elect officers. Let's see, is the VP still a sitting board member? That person should now be running the show until new board members and subsequent election of officers.

Even before this goes much further I would have the VP contact the association attorney for comment on how to proceed.

The problem with dealing with the association attorney is that although they represent the association, they take their orders from the board.

The voted off President should be out of the loop if indeed your removal meeting was valid.

I would not get an attorney other than the association attorney. He/she should be able to put closure to this for you.

Are there only 3 board members left? Do your documents say anything about quorum or do those present at a board meeting represent a quorum?

Oh, and they don't go away quietly. Which just makes it more difficult for all neighbors involved.
DanaB1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 319
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GaryR6 on 04/05/2011 1:39 PM
Hello John:

With the three voted off we only have one board member left----and the now voted off president just sent that only remaining board member a letter saying her and the secretary removed the only remaing board member from the board??????

The only remaining board member also voted the three board members off ----she owns two units in the community
and has many problems with the manipulating control of this removed president.

I just reread this post so now I see that your down to one and only one board member. First off, your ex President is a dumb ass because she doesn't even realize that board members CANNOT remove other board members; only the owners can do that. Board members can only remove officers.

I'd have the one remaining board member call the association attorney and present the facts and the removal paperwork and go with his advice on how proceeding. His bill will be worth it to move forward with no fear of lawsuits.

Just my two cents.

Been there, done that.

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