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JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.—The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community. If the association has a photocopy machine available where the records are maintained, it must provide parcel owners with copies on request during the inspection if the entire request is limited to no more than 25 pages.

This is from Florida Statute 720.303
My question is who can be an authorized agent?
My husband bought the house a year before we were married so I am not on the title. It will cost about $400 to put me on the title because there is still a mortgage on the house and we would have to pay the tax for that.
The PM had told me that they can not talk to me about any matter related to the HOA or PM because I am not on the title eventhough we are married now. I have sent them the marriage cert and a boiler plate authorized agent form that was signed and notarized. The PM still says they will not talk to me about matters concerning the house and I am not an authorized agent but they can not tell me who can be an authorized agent.
Is this correct or are they wrong?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Good news...Your CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are PUBLIC records. You can find your CC&R's at your local COUNTY courthouse in the RECORDS department. You may find the By-laws or ACC documentation as well. Articles of Incorporation are filed with the state but a copy may be on file at the courthouse as well.

You have the SAME rights as any potential buyer in a HOA. It is viewed as the BUYER's responsibility to be informed of the rules/regulations of the HOA. Why the HOA isn't giving you this information may be in the way your asking. They may be misinterpreting the situation. The rules should have been turned over to your husband when he bought the home from the SELLER.

There is only 1 vote per household regardless of how many live in the home. This means either you or your husband can run for an office position but NOT both. This may be a factor why they aren't recognizing you as long as their is 1 owner on the deed that owner gets the vote.


Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Jessica:

Per Statute definition as noted in the portion you posted:

“Parcel owner” means the record owner of legal title to a parcel.

Your husband would potentially need to do a letter to the HOA and PM Company authorizing you as having the same rights and privileges regarding the homeowner’s association as he does with regards to all information and voting rights as he legal spouse. He then has made you in essence an authorized agent.

JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you for the reply. I guess I was not very clear. I wanted to look at the financial paperwork for the association along with minutes from meetings and such. This is our first association and I wanted to learn how it is run and the innerworkings of the association. We do have the CCR. My husband could careless about all this stuff, I am the one who is interessted but I can't look at any of the paperwork because I am not on title. I also assume because the PM says I am not an authorized agent I can not attend the meetings or have a say in anything but my PM was happy to let me know because we are married I am still responsible for the annual assessments along with my husband. I am not sure why they pointed that out but they did.
JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
We did that. We even notarized it and everything. The PM never came out and said that was not good enough or said what we have to do for me to become an authorized agent but they did say they recieved the letter but they can not speak to me. I can't get any clear answer. If it can be avoided I would rather not have to pay to put me on title. I am just not sure how to become his authorized agent.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Jessica:

Your husband also could give you “proxy” for the association to act as his representative for meetings, etc.

Your PM is incorrect in that until you are on the title you are not responsible for annual assessments along with your husband. Florida is not a community property state; therefore, assets and debts acquired before marriage are non-marital assets. This means you are not liable for any debts taken on by your spouse before marriage and vice versa.

Any debts entered into during the marriage are then joint liability, and both responsible.

If they give you more problems, then send a letter "Certified Return Receipt" to the Board and PM asking what information they are requiring for an Authorized Agent. If push comes to shove, telephone an attorney and ask your question as some will offer free consultations.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Are you ran by a Property Manager/Management Company or a volunteer board? There is a difference. You may be barking up the wrong tree. If it is a volunteer board situation then the PM does whatever the BOD authorizes them to do. However, if your run by the PM then they are responsible for running the HOA.

I believe since you are a married couple it should be irrelevant if your name is on the deed or not for their purposes. A married couple represents 1 ownership. It may matter who's on the deed when it comes to divorce purposes which is another legal matter altogether.

The PM wanted to let you know that you were responsible for the dues just like your husband because IF you were NOT to pay your assessments and divorce, you BOTH would be responsible to pay the back assessments. Basically, they could come after you or him to collect their money. Which ironically, should have indicated your ability to be considered a member of the HOA. As ONLY members of an HOA can be owners.

If it's a volunteer BOD, go to them and ask to get involved. You can represent your husband. I see no reason why you can't attend a meeting. You may not qualify for a BOD and you may not want to. I do encourage you to get involved in your HOA regardless. It's your home and be happy in it.

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Melissa … I would have to respectfully disagree. As I stated FL is not a community property state and various states have different laws regarding property. As stated in the following article:

http://www.ehow.com/list_6826351_spousal-liability-laws-state-florida.html

Assets Acquired Before Marriage
• In Florida, assets and debts that are acquired before a marriage are nonmarital assets. This means that you are not liable for any debts taken on by your spouse before your marriage takes place. This can include mortgages for property, medical bills and credit card debt. Your spouse will take this debt with him even if you divorce; a court cannot compel you to make payments on these debts.

Assessments are tied to the property which the husband owned prior to the marriage. Until legal action is taken to add the spouse, then the spouse would potentially not be liable.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
NO disagreement here. Each state is different. However, I was pointing out what the PM may have been indicating. They are kind of sneaky that way to get people to pay. Even if it is misleading them a bit. Which I didn't want to leap to in this situation. Something already seems to be off. There's a piece of this puzzle missing as denying someone knowledge of a HOA rules isn't quite normal. It's usually encouraged...

Former HOA President
JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
We have a BOD but we are run by a management company.
PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257
Posted:
Jessica,

First, you need to continue to read the paragraphs following 720.303 - especially 5(a)and(c). Briefly, your husband (the owner) must submit a written request to the management company by certified mail.

If you follow the statute and the response is inappropriate, you are entitled to damages of $50 per day.

peter
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Jessica,

To answer your questions
#1 "My question is who can be an authorized agent?" Answer, The authorized agent can be a power of attorney or lawyer or legal representative of the owner. Of which you are none of the mentioned .You canot have his proxy because you are not on the deed, therefore you may not vote in place of your Husband.

No they are not wrong on sharing HOA documents with you. Your Husband will have to arrange to take the time and get any records that you want to review from the P.M. Read the Statutes on that procedure. It's the law an I think that the P.M is doing their job quite well.
JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
It's not a question of the PM doing their job well or not. Although I do think they are overstepping their bounds. I do have my husband power of attorney and he has mine. We were told that didn't matter.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Jessica,

Tell us why you think that the P.M. is overstepping their bounds? You have his power of attorney when he is incaple of making decisions only if you mean in a will. The HOA only goes by the name or names on the deed to the property in the HOA. To keep this simple, just have your Husband get the documents that you want.
You said that you were requesting old minutes and old financials. What are you looking for? This stuff is all past doing anything to alter what they are. If you are so interested in the HOA and perhaps looking to serve on a committee or run for the Board, you will need to be added to the Deed. And what tax will you need to pay because of the $400.00 fee to be added to the Deed? I am really not sure what you mean with that.
JessicaM5 (California)
Posts: 16
Posted:
I think they are overstepping because they have given the documents I requested and was turned down for to other people in my association that were not on the title of their house. They were in a similar situation, they got married after the husband bought the house and they were not put on the title.
As far as what I am looking for. This is our first association and looking throught the financials and minutes will give me a better understanding of how our association works, the contracts we have for the people we contract out to, how many people go to meetings, if the community is involved or not ect...
As far as the tax goes I am not really sure it can be classified as a tax but it is called a doc stamp. We would have to pay the doc stamp on half of what is left on our mortgage, which would equal a little more than $400.
I am not interested in starting a war with the PM but they are playing favorites and in my opinion they are over stepping their boundaries. But that is just my opinion. I just wanted to know if there was a way to for me to become an authorized agent for my husband.
FYI my husband did ask the PM for the board members names so we could talk to them about this situation but they said they are not authorized to give out that information.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Donna: I would be interested to know where it states that an individual must be on the deed to be a proxy. If Jessica was on the deed, her husband would not need a proxy as either could cast the vote for that unit/lot. An individual can appoint anyone to be their proxy, whether it is an attorney, relative, friend, or next door neighbor. They in essence choose an individual they trust to conduct business on their behalf as a proxy.

Jessica:

I commend you and your husband as new members to HOA’s in wanting to learn. You are also correct in that the meeting minutes and financials will give you a good insight in how an HOA association operates. Hopefully as you learn you will be willing to volunteer your time and efforts in the future for the benefit of yourselves and for your community.

Also … in essence definition for authorized agent:

A person authorized to act for and under the direction of another person when dealing with third parties. The person who appoints an agent is called the principal.

An example would potentially be if my husband’s company generally only allows the employee to pick up a check, he instead can authorize me as his agent to do so on his behalf with verbal or written permission (depending on company regulations). In some instances to be legal the documentation may need to be both signed and notarized, but as long as it allows said circumstances then that individual is authorized to act as an agent on behalf of another individual by written agreement.

Homeowner associations are to abide by their governing documents and certain state statutes. For example many (not all as it varies by state) are incorporated as a Non-Profit Corporation and would potentially follow the Non-Profit Corporation statutes. You need to insure in your document’s Articles of Incorporation how your HOA has been set up. Then these are the corporate/company statutes which will regulate the business.

Then you have the HOA statutes Chapter 720 which in essence govern the Declaration of CCR’s and certain rules and regulations which homeowner associations must abide. Some items in the statutes will supersede sometimes the HOA documents if they make certain statements to the effect of, “regardless of what is stated in the declaration”. Other times the HOA documents will supersede when the state statute makes statements such as, “unless otherwise stated in the declaration”.

For example if you are a Non-Profit Corporation the following corporate statute states:

Non-Profit Corporation Statute:
 617.0701Meetings of members, generally; failure to hold annual meeting; special meeting; consent to corporate actions without meetings; waiver of notice of meetings.—

 (5)(a)Notice of a meeting of members need not be given to any member who signs a waiver of notice, in person or by proxy, either before or after the meeting. Unless required by the bylaws, neither the affairs transacted nor the purpose of the meeting need be specified in the waiver.
 (b)Attendance of a member at a meeting, either in person or by proxy, constitutes waiver of notice and waiver of any and all objections to the place of the meeting, the time of the meeting, or the manner in which it has been called or convened, unless the member attends a meeting solely for the purpose of stating, at the beginning of the meeting, any such objection or objections to the transaction of affairs.

Then in the HOA statutes Chapter 720, the following applies with regards to in essence the annual meeting:

 720.306Meetings of members; voting and election procedures; amendments.—

 8) PROXY VOTING.—The members have the right, unless otherwise provided in this subsection or in the governing documents, to vote in person or by proxy.
 (a) To be valid, a proxy must be dated, must state the date, time, and place of the meeting for which it was given, and must be signed by the authorized person who executed the proxy. A proxy is effective only for the specific meeting for which it was originally given, as the meeting may lawfully be adjourned and reconvened from time to time, and automatically expires 90 days after the date of the meeting for which it was originally given. A proxy is revocable at any time at the pleasure of the person who executes it. If the proxy form expressly so provides, any proxy holder may appoint, in writing, a substitute to act in his or her place.

Please note that the above makes reference to “unless otherwise provided in the governing documents”. Therefore, you need to insure what your governing documents state with regards to annual meeting and proxy voting.

As Peter pointed out read on down the statute you initially posted. Also, if your husband himself asked the PM for the names of the board members they potentially should have given this information. I would recommend asking your neighbors this question to find out the information. I would then politely let the board members know the PM’s attitude towards you regarding your husband’s requests.

The board needs to realize the PM works for the board. It may be a situation where the board has allowed the PM too many liberties and they now have adopted a “god” like attitude and which the board needs to insure is reigned in to avoid future issues. However, please keep in mind the board may be unaware of the issues and until they know there is a potential issue they cannot fix the problem. Therefore, I would ask that you please keep that in mind and be courteous when you initially speak with the board members. They are after all only volunteers devoting their time and efforts as needed for everyone within the community.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
There's no free ride here. Just spend the money and be put on the deed. It's probably your cheapest option and would GUARANTEE you the rights you seek.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Peter,

You make such good sense. Rather that start a battle with the Board and P.M, it would be so much easier to dummy up the $400.00. Not only would it ease up the hassle of the HOA but it would ease up the hassle down the road in joint ownership for Estate taxes. And Jessica, PLEASE don't say that it is a matter of principle. That does not ever surpass common sense.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Maybe the husband chooses to insure there is no issue with regards to his before marriage property to not add the new spouse. Alternatively, maybe the new spouse chooses not be added as then there is no issue with regards to being liable for the before marriage debt.

The point is if the documents and statutes are followed, how the property is titled is their business and they should not be required to change their personal liabilities to pacify a PM company.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Janet,

I agree with you that they should not be REQUIRED to change the Deed if they chose not to but on the other hand, the wife requesting documents that she, according to Deed Restrictions, has no right to view the HOA documents per the Deed restrictions. Let the Husband get the copies and be done with it. As I said, this sounds to me like there is a point to be made by her, but it isn't going to go anywhere the way the property is deeded.

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