HOME OWNER SUBDIVISION

Hi Geri:

Welcome to HOAtalk … you may want to take off the all caps next time you type your post as that will make it a little easier to read.

You have a challenging question … not sure if we can help, but it will be fun trying to find you some answers and maybe we will find something that could potentially help your group. Because it is challenging you will need to read your HOA documents and be able to give us certain answers.

I have a few questions, to start off and will probably think of more:

1) What do your documents state with regards to duration or number of years for developer rights (especially in any sections pertaining to the golf course)?

2) Who legally is shown in the county assessor’s website as the owner of the golf course property … the developer or the HOA? I am kind of under the assumption at this time that you may be in essence a “country club” type property.

3) Does your CCR’s in potentially the beginning “Recitals” or some other section reference any state statute sections which may pertain to the community? Or, did the attorneys you contacted state what sections of law would pertain to your community?

4) How is your association incorporated as within your Articles of Incorporation (i.e., Non-Profit, Limited Liability Company, Non-Stock Corporation, etc., options vary by states)?

5) Is the golf course a commercial course that is open to the public?

Also, as you are new to this website I want to make sure you understand that we are all in essence homeowners just like yourself. We all come from various backgrounds, have various experiences, and offer information based on said experiences and sometimes the state statutes.

There is this section that has my curiosity because of the years you have been operating, and because of what it states in the last sentence which I have bolded for your reference:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=country+club&URL=0700-0799/0720/Sections/0720.31.html

 720.31Recreational leaseholds; right to acquire; escalation clauses.—

 (6)An association may enter into agreements to acquire leaseholds, memberships, and other possessory or use interests in lands or facilities, including, but not limited to, country clubs, golf courses, marinas, submerged land, parking areas, conservation areas, and other recreational facilities. An association may enter into such agreements regardless of whether the lands or facilities are contiguous to the lands of the community or whether such lands or facilities are intended to provide enjoyment, recreation, or other use or benefit to the owners. All leaseholds, memberships, and other possessory or use interests existing or created at the time of recording the declaration must be stated and fully described in the declaration. Subsequent to recording the declaration, agreements acquiring leaseholds, memberships, or other possessory or use interests not entered into within 12 months after recording the declaration may be entered into only if authorized by the declaration as a material alteration or substantial addition to the common areas or association property. If the declaration is silent, any such transaction requires the approval of 75 percent of the total voting interests of the association. The declaration may provide that the rental, membership fees, operations, replacements, or other expenses are common expenses; impose covenants and restrictions concerning their use; and contain other provisions not inconsistent with this subsection. An association exercising its rights under this subsection may join with other associations that are part of the same development or with a master association responsible for the enforcement of shared covenants, conditions, and restrictions in carrying out the intent of this subsection. This subsection is intended to clarify law in existence before July 1, 2010.

Geri,
Did you contact the association attorney or a separate attorney? If you contacted the association/developer attorney you may have received a response that would be favorable to the developer. Your association is a not for profit association which I believe Florida Statutes Chapter 617 would apply. I forget exactly when HOA protection statutes were first added to F.S. 617, sometime in 1992 I think. They were renumbered in 2004 as Florida Statutes Chapter 720. If F.S. 617.301-617.312 were enacted at the time the Developer sold his interest in the property the new Developer may have been subject to these laws and as a result now subject to F.S 720 as well. I am not an attorney but I think you should seek an attorney who specializes in HOA law. Your covenants were created to give the developer and his successors complete control and they should be changed!

Carolyn

Are you considered a +55 yr. old certified community ( meaning a certain percentage of owners must qualify in that age category)? When I googled information about your community it appears that you are. Perhaps someone more familiar with this category in FL could give us some information as to whether they fall under 720.

Geri,

You are in one of those unique situations where this is a Del Web developement. These were built to be maintained by the D.W. enterprises and that is the information that you should provide us with. Who is responsible for all of the amenities there. Do you have an elected Board and are they decision makers for the care and maintenance of the amenities. I have posted the list of them and it is HUGE!! This may not be HOA responsibility and therefore, the owners would need to go after the owning corporation.

Amenities
•25,000 sq.ft. Clubhouse
•18-Hole golf course
•Bogies Restaurant
•Fitness studio
•Outdoor pool & spa
•Hobby room
•Game & cards room
•Arts & crafts studio
•Ballroom
•Library
•Billiards tables
•Walking & biking trails
•Tennis courts
•Pickleball courts
•5 Shuffleboard Courts
•4 Bocce ball courts
•2 Horseshoe pits
•Softball & baseball field
•Basketball court
•Volleyball court
•Parks & natural space
•RV parking

Geri,

I understand how frustrated you are but we need some answers from you. Please read my above posts and fill in some blanks for us please.

We are a 55+ community, our golf course is not part of the HOA, but both are owned by the second owner/Developer the home owners have private roads in this community which we are being assessed for new ones over and above our monthly fees which are at all different levels from $94.00 per month to $155.00 per month, but we all get the same ammenities. This is a non profit HOA and the new owner is the only one listed as a director on the State of Florida till we found out that that was illegal and then he listed a couple other people on that document with the state. They are listed as Spruce Creek Recreation LLC, with a number of other LLC's. A tangled WEB

I know home values have dropped drasticly but our subdivision has taken an abnormal hit because of high amenity fees, and the amenities being so dated and in such terrible condition, they should be comprable to their sister communitys, but aren't, and that also goes for the ammenity fees that we are being charged compared to the sister communitys with lower fees. We need to change this situation, aren't sure which law we come under, since I have just read an article where 2 attorneys are sayiing a community is not under 720 and the other attorney says they are. Where does one find this out???

Where did you find that Spruce Creek South has Pickle Ball Courts we don't have any, about a year and a half ago we got a contract to give us a price on putting in 4 pickle ball courts, the owner said, NO!!! The price for the 4 was $25,000.00 You know what he gave us??? He painted the pickle ball lines on one of the cracked tennis courts, gee thanks for all those world class amenties

So what happens when a community not under 720 laws doesn't use the 2007 Revitalization process to update their covents to the 720 laws, where are those laws that govern them from the State of Florida or what does govern them????

I forgot to add. The original corp was dissolved in 10/16/1998, reinstated in 8/07. What was going on between these dates?

I agree with you Donna ... here it shows Reinstatement filed 8/23/2007, would that not then put it under 720?

SPRUCE CREEK SOUTH HOMEOWNERS' ASSOCIATION, INC.
Filing Information
Document Number N32373
FEI/EIN Number 592990211
Date Filed 05/18/1989
State FL
Status ACTIVE
Last Event REINSTATEMENT
Event Date Filed 08/23/2007
Event Effective Date NONE

Janet,

Yes it makes them a 720 and they do have a Board and pay assessments so it is who pays for what is the question. Geri says that the owner is keeping 67% of the assessment fees which really throws me that there is a major misunderstanding on the owners parts OR major corruption OR somehow this is not filed properly.

All the lots are built out

Donna:

If we can help them potentially get control of the HOA that would hopefully help out with regards to many of their issues. This one is going to be a challenge ... good thing we like challenges.

Geri ... your HOA covenants do not happen to be posted on line and accessible via internet?

Janet,
The restrictions are recorded and availabe at the Marion County Clerk of Court website. Search official records name:SPRUCE CREEK SOUTH, document type:RES. The restrictions were recorded in 1989 with numerous ammendments through the years. The most recent in 2003. The restrictions are terrible for owners and give all control for the association to the developer and his successors until they decide to turn it over. I could not find a date or condition which forced turnover.

Carolyn

Carolyn, thanks for pulling them up you guys are fast, I also found them and was going to send the site, but you already have it, are we stuck??? It's terrible for the residents, they are literally Raping us...

Geri - if you go to http://www.sunbiz.org, which is the FL listing site for corporations, and search in the "name" category for Spruce Creek South Homeowners Association there is a listing. Three people are noted for Pres. Sec. and Treas. I think it is best not to list the names here. Are any of these 3 people homeowners?

Carol,

If you mean these three names, they are at the developers address. This sort of means that there has been no turnover because I have not found addresses within the developement which MIGHT be member names or otherwise known as the Board HOA members

KIRKPATRICK, KENNETH
2605 SW 33RD ST SUITE 200
OCALA FL 34471 US
Title T
FANTE, NORBERT J JR.
2605 SW 33RD ST., SUITE 200
OCALA FL 34471 US
Title S
DAY, JAMES E
2605 SW 33RD ST., SUITE 200
OCALA FL 34471 US

No they don't own property in Spruce Creek South, nor Live here.

Donna,
Thank you for your help, May all give you good bidding at the auction, hope you do well.

We need more people like you and more of those trees, to many cut them down without giving them a second thought or the respect they deserve for being there all those years.

Hi Geri ... I have been reading through some of these documents, do you have annual meetings and have the homeowners been given voting rights?

Hi Geri & Donna:

Here is what I found that stuck out so far:

1) On 6/9/89 he filed original covenants making them sound really good and beneficial.
2) On 5/18/90 he filed a preliminary development agreement.
3) On 5/22/90 he filed First Amended Declaration and proceeded to line his pockets with changes regarding assessments.

He added:
• A reasonable profit for developer
• Recoupment of capital improvement costs
• Interest expenses
• Depreciation

This association appears to fall under Chapter 617 – Corporations Not for Profit.

I found the below information, but we need to make sure in the latest amendments to CCR that 720 was not excluded. I know in the original CCR the developer excluded 718 (probably did not list 720 in original CCR because was not yet in effect). Maybe this skipped his attention and potentially if excluded there is the issue whether or not would be absolutely legal to avoid statute.

 720.302Purposes, scope, and application.—

 (3)This chapter does not apply to:
 (a)A community that is composed of property primarily intended for commercial, industrial, or other nonresidential use; or
 (b)The commercial or industrial parcels in a community that contains both residential parcels and parcels intended for commercial or industrial use.

 (5)Unless expressly stated to the contrary, corporations that operate residential homeowners’ associations in this state shall be governed by and subject to chapter 607, if the association was incorporated under that chapter, or to chapter 617, if the association was incorporated under that chapter, and this chapter. This subsection is intended to clarify existing law.

I have some items from 617 statutes that I am organizing to see if they also can help.

DONNA,
WOW DIDN'T KNOW YOU WERE AN ARTIST, I AM OF SORTS ALSO, THOSE FLOWERS LOOK LIKE WISTERIA'S VERY BEAUTIFUL. LOVE ALL THOSE OLD BOTANICAL PRINTS, AND GARDENING THANKS FOR SHARING, TENNESSEE IS A GORGEOUS STATE, BUT A LITTLE TO COLD FOR ME IN THE WINTERS, ALTHOUGH HERE IN CENTRAL FLORIDA WE DO GET HARD FREEZES, BUT USUALLY VERY SUNNY.
GERI

CAROLYN,
THANKS FOR YOUR INFO, I'M GRATEFUL AND AM FOLLOWING IT UP AND LOOKING INTO ANOTHER ATTORNEY THAT HANDLES ONLY HOA'S, NOT SURE ABOUT THE ONES WE HAVE NOW, WILL CONFER WITH THEM.
GERI