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GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
As I read the various posts, especially the complaints of the “Board can’t do that” or “That’s against the law” I wonder if anyone else has an HOA Bible and if so what is in it? Mine I fear has now expanded to three binders; in the first I have a current copy of the Declarations, the By-Laws and the Articles of Incorporation along with copies of any resolutions passed by the Board.

Book two is a copy of the Association’s Policy and Procedures Manual and the current Rules of the Association.

Book three is a copy of all of my State’s applicable laws. You would be surprised how many problems having these readily at hand solve when someone implies the BOD is doing something it shouldn’t. Simply pull out the corresponding book and ask them to show where the Board is wrong. Of course the down side of this is you better be right or you end up looking the fool.

Now that I’m no longer on the Board they are more valuable to me than ever for making sure the Board is doing what it is supposed to.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
God Bless you Glen... My golden response was always "I will get back with you on that once I look it up". NEVER EVER EVER ANSWER ON THE SPOT WHEN YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER!!! It will get you in trouble EVERY time if your a board/Officer member. A HOA should stand for "Homeowner ASSUMPTATION"

I always tried to bring a copy of the rules to each meeting (if anyone attended). However, the people who replaced me seem to forget they exist... Funny how I straightened out our HOA and increased our home values, when I had the rule book at hand... Go figure! LOL!!!

Former HOA President
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
We have a 5-person BOD, of which my wife is president. I'm a former president, and currently Architectural Control Committee chair. It's pretty clear to me that of the 6 of us, only my wife and I have actually read and understood our governing documents as a whole, and I seriously doubt that anyone other than the two of us have a working knowledge of the Davis-Stirling Act (that part of the California Civil Code that pertains to CIDs). Some of these people have been on the board for years, too.

My wife and I would both love for her to retire from the board when her term is up (12 months still to go), but we are afraid to turn governance of the community over to people who cannot tell when something they're considering doing is in violation of any of "books of the HOA bible."

What do we do?

Well, we're thinking of trying to play an "elder statesman" role, in which the board appoints a standing committee that is charged with teaching a quarterly seminar on the "Bible." It would be open to current and prospective board members, and interested homeowners, and we would draw in former board presidents as well.

What do you think of this idea?

Rob
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Not a bad idea considering the issue with HOA's is the fact it is a group of VOLUNTEER group of homeowners. I would go so far as either creating a website or adding to the existing one, a "weekly/monthly etc" lesson. Ie.post a different rule/paragraph a week.

Why not have a lesson with every HOA meeting or even a "Sunday School class on HOA's" at other times? Get your message out there by offering a class or two. Education is power. You may also find your "Bigger fish" to take over once you all get out. I know that's what I did without them even knowing...

Former HOA President
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
Nobody's ever tried it here, so I suppose it's worth a shot. I know I would have appreciated it when I first got elected. We're going to start with the reserves, which nobody seems to understand.

So, Melissa: What's this "bigger fish" ploy you pulled off without them knowing? Sounds like fun.

Rob
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It wasn't easy but it seems once you make a grubby green penny shiny... everybody wants it! Basically, when I took over we had a con-artist President. Which I caught onto rather early. My first year was filled with just changing out years of misuse of funds and cleaning house. I re-negotiated contracts and got the con-artist ex-president (turned my vice-president uggh) under control. Basically, used his con skills against him while cleaning up the neighborhood.

Once the place was in good shape, the sharks came a swimming...Which is exactly my original goal. I knew once someone got interested and made changes others would come along and want better...It was my plan the whole time because I wanted a good neighborhood to live in and that would only happen IF I made the changes...Then I could sit back as a board member and take the heat off...

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobW on 03/17/2011 9:57 AM

Well, we're thinking of trying to play an "elder statesman" role, in which the board appoints a standing committee that is charged with teaching a quarterly seminar on the "Bible." It would be open to current and prospective board members, and interested homeowners, and we would draw in former board presidents as well.

What do you think of this idea?

Rob

Rob,

This is an excellent idea. However, I'm going to use it more in a series of articles in our newsletter describing what an HOA is and how it works. Then perhaps hold a live Q&A session for anyone who might want to attend.

I'll start a new topic for ideas to use.

Tim
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is inspirational!!! Education is key! Wish more people would take that effort. The confusion is just so overwhelming. HOA's were created as sale tools by builder/developers. They then turned into legal nightmares for the rest of us. All sounds great when you hear "Your in control of your home values by having the power to make enforceable rules".

The best analogy I've used for years in describing how a HOA works is this:

If your neighbor in a HOA decides to put an "outhouse" in their front yard, what can you do to have it removed? You can go to the BOD and report it as a violation against the laws. (CC&R's) The BOD then can remove that outhouse at the owner's expense and lien them for the cost. This process can take less than a month in some cases.

However, in a NON-HOA that neighbor can put an outhouse in their front yard and leave it for years. I find that putting the prospective of the positives of an HOA works better. Especially if you compare to real life expenses. How many people could actually afford a pool, tennis court, or other amenity if they did NOT share it? I know I paid $50 a month for garbage, lawncare, pool use, and ability to rent the clubhouse. My non-HOA house I pay $50 every 2 weeks alone for lawncare...

It's all in the perspective you put it in. Once you do that even people against HOA's can't argue the positives...

Former HOA President
MaureenM5 (Washington)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Glen,

I wish my HOA board would take up a HOA "bible"! They won't even read the board binder given to them and refuse to adhere to the CCRs and Bylaws. Zero proceedure, no Roberts Rules, nothing. How refreshing to hear someone who is involved and committed to your HOA.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
Tim: Good idea on the "Did you know...?" feature in the newsletter. Think I'll steal it. (-:

In addition to that, what we're talking about is something more in depth - maybe a half day on one Saturday per quarter. We have a decent meeting room with a wireless Internet connection, and I have a laptop, projector and screen that I use in giving presentations for business. I plan to introduce all of the documents and useful websites, do the standard handout thing, etc. I also plan to cover some actual sample issues that got completely out of control here, precisely because board members did not have a solid grip on what their duties were.

How about this one:

Years ago, we had several rotations of boards that did not want to raise association fees. The people on the boards were mostly retired, living on fixed incomes, so naturally they were hesitant on a personal level to spend more money each month. And, of course, when someone would suggest that it might be necessary, someone at the meeting would talk about the sad shape of the economy, the hardships an increase would mean to retired and elderly homeowners, etc.

Unfortunately, the infrastructure and buildings were beginning to show signs of some serious construction defects, and even though the association had sued the contractor, sub-contractors, and even the City, they were forced to settle for far less than was needed to correct all of the defects. Then the attorneys got 1/3 of the settlement, to add insult to injury.

Result: Not enough money in the reserves to correct the water intrusion problems, and since no one wanted to raise the monthly fees, they sure as hell didn't want to do levy a special assessment, so they...

Deferred maintenance until things got better.

Because of the deferred maintenance, water kept leaking behind the siding of the buildings, and into the wooden eves and soffits. The dry rot, wet rot, fungus and termite problems began to accelerate. More and more areas needed major repairs, for which there was now even less money in the reserves.

And the boards said, we can't raise the association fees to cover this. It will take even more money than before, and people will get angry with us. Times are rough. But how can we do the repairs? Let's paint the buildings, instead and...

Defer maintenance.

And so the years passed...

Then Rob moved in. The Association had just painted the complex, and I had just become the Architectural Control Committee chair. The agenda item said, vote to pay the painting contractor. I said, wait until I look at the paint job.

And so it was decided that I would survey the paint job, and report back to the board. The next day, around the complex I went. Not bad, I thought. It's all carefully painted white, and the trim all neatly cut in. I was about to pronounce the job satisfactory, when I spied something odd on one of the walls of a townhouse.

I walked up to the wall to see better, and guess what I found? A weed, growing through the siding - not through a joint, but through the siding itself - and very carefully painted white. I poked the siding next to the weed, and my finger went right through the wall.

Well, this changed the entire nature of my report. My report led to a community crisis of biblical proportions, and ultimately - and this took several years - it came down to either allowing the city to condemn the entire complex, or raise the funds in a massive special assessment to save it. It was nip and tuck, and we almost lost everything, but those of us who wanted to save it prevailed against those who wanted to delay the special assessment as long as possible, hoping they would move on before having to pay.

And the bottom line? We successfully passed a special assessment election that was the highest in California HOA history:

$57,000 per unit, times 177. $10,089,000.00 And all because of...

Deferred maintenance.

And a mistaken belief that hard decisions ought to be avoided when people might get upset about them.

Rob
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobW on 03/17/2011 8:46 PM

$57,000 per unit, times 177. $10,089,000.00 And all because of...

Deferred maintenance.

And a mistaken belief that hard decisions ought to be avoided when people might get upset about them.

Rob

OUCH! That must have hurt. Had they done the special assessment earlier and corrected the problem when it was small it would have been drastically less I suspect.

RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
If the boards had had the brass to raise monthly fees each year (Some of them actually caved into pressure and reduced the monthly fees!), the reserves might have been flush enough to fix many of these problems when they were still small, with no special assessment required.

Here's how it worked:

A small patch of siding in the center of a wall would become discolored and warped, indicating water intrusion and dry rot/fungal infestation behind the panel. That area could have been repaired, the intrusion halted, and the infestation arrested. Instead, they just let it go. A few years more of water intrusion, and the decay reaches corner of the building. Then it attacks the framework, and around the corner, attacking the next wall. Now you have a key structural member, wrapped in between decay in two directions, and what was a $3,000 job is now a $20,000 project.

That's how it went, until it became a $10,000,000 reconstruction project.

Rob

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