Builder disclosed HOA but no monetary dues

HOA dues are NOT escrowed. They are separate payments and are legally binding to pay. As far as knowing the dues amount or anything else about the HOA... It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. The realtor, mortgage company, developer, or closing attorney can let you KNOW that a HOA exist but NOT any of the rules. The mortgage company does factor in HOA dues when making a decision if you are approved for the loan as this is considered part of your debt load.

HOA dues are very much enforceable and NOT paying them can lead to lien or foreclosure. This is one of those cases where "ignorance is bliss" doesn't apply or get you out of paying. I'd suggest you start taking steps to pay NOW because your really out of steam when it comes to the whole "I didn't know" if you go to court.

Hi JbT:

A couple of questions:

1) When you first purchased was this a new subdivision under developer control? In some states during developer control they are the individual who is responsible for payment of fees until X units sold or X amount of time.

2) How far back are dues supposedly owed for with regards to the summons?

Hehe. Was there a disclosure that you would have to pay for electricity? Water?

When I purchased my home the builer was still in control and they had not finished the subdivision nor turned it over to the HOA. In my P&S Agreement, I had a sentence that stated my dues would not commence (since there were none) until such time the subdivision was completed, the road put in and the entrance gate installed. The builder sent me a statement 2 years later stating my dues were in arrears and I merely directed them back to my P&S and that was the end of that.

Dues begin when you purchase and it your responsibility to pay them. I also believe the realtor should have informed you but sadly most of them don't.

Karen that is the point. I understand they are my responsibility...now. BUT, the seller has a very real legal responsibility to disclose both the HOA, if participation is required, and most importnat the fees involved with being part of the HOA.

I am beginning to see that I will have to pay the HOA and then will have to litigate with the listing Realtor and builder for their negligence in disclosure.

I ask with this with respect, but are any of the previous responses from anyone qualified? Legal field, Realtor, title attorney, etc.?

No one can answer your question without looking at all of your closing paperwork, titles, contract, etc, etc. If you want someone who is qualified, you will need to hire a real estate lawyer. Every piece of paperwork you have to this point will be different than anyone elses and will need to be read.

No two situations are the same. Everyone has unique paperwork.

I apologize, by no means did I mean to say anyone's opinions were not qualified. I just wanted to know the background of the answers/suggestions being tendered.

I bought the house at 24 years old. Looking back, yes I should have potentially asked more questions. A few years later, and a few mistakes wiser, I now know that just because someone talks the talk does not make them knowledgeable or honest. The issue looking back was that there is a pool, golf course, and club house. Not being told or shown in black and white that there were dues for the property I was purchasing I assumed that HOA collected money for those items (social dues) not simply for living were I live.

I am in banking and I know for a fact that yes the HOA must be considered in your DTI ratio but it also must be present on the 1003 (mortgage application). Mine was not on the application or title or HUD. It was not on the seller's disclosure either, which is required by KY statute (attorneys?).

I am a firmer believer that most foreclosures (MOST!)knew what they were signing when they signed. But for some I can see how deception crept into their transactions. If I had signed something that said 'You will owe this each year,' then I could not in good faith contest those fees. But I did not and had no idea what was due. I received one bill and than BAM! this summons.

How is that right?

My question remains what would one do in this situation? Pay this and then sue the Builder/Realtor? Or try to fight the HOA? Shouldn't the HOA have to prove that I signed anything or that any bill was ever sent? Or did I sign 'anything' by signing the Warranty Deed?

I felt my last response really didn't address this specific question.

The HOA would only have to prove that you are the owner, which you are not contesting, and that the property is subject to the Covenants governed by the HOA, which I also don't believe you are contesting.

You became a member of the Association when you purchased the property. The fact that you did not properly understand how an Association works is not the fault of the Association. It's not necessarily the fault of anyone involved in the purchasing process (but only someone reading all the documentation involved in the closing can give good advise about that).

Associations are typically governed by volunteers. You stated that you were part of the last section to be sold. This was probably the same time that the Association was being turned over to the Homeowners who elected those members who volunteered to govern the Association. This is a huge learning curve time frame for anyone involved in the process. Therefore, it's possible that the Association was unaware that the property was sold until you received your first bill. This is why I had suggested contacting the HOA and explain this fact and that you desire to make the payments current but would like the late fees waived.

BTW - when Associations are in control of the developer the developer usually keeps the assessments low and might even waive the first years assessment as a selling point as they are paying most of the bills out of pocket. Therefore, it's not unusual for assessments to increase drastically when control transfers to the homeowners.

Tim

Hi JbT:

Tim offers very outstanding advice.

Most all of us on this site are just individuals who are in HOA’s same as you and we offer advice based on our experiences and sometimes the State Statutes. In the time I have posted here I have never seen an attorney give legal advice. In fact many of us will sometimes be sure to make statements to the effect of … I am not an attorney, but this is what I suggest you look for regarding your question.

We all come from various backgrounds and once in a while someone may state they are for example an accountant. I am not an attorney, but have worked in the past in the legal field so you will see me posting quite a few state statutes because I am familiar with researching said statutes. Also, my mother was a real estate broker so I became familiar with minor items in that area which is why I will have posters check certain items on their warranty deeds or within their title insurance policies regarding certain questions.

Please do not get me wrong as these comments are not just for your information, but also because I have noticed a lot of new posters lately and I want to make sure everyone understands that most all of us here are giving information based on our knowledge and/or experiences. I have the feeling lately that individuals are thinking this site is for legal based information, which would be an incorrect assumption.

As you stated you are in the banking industry and have quoted some items that are potential violations, my recommendation is follow Tim’s advice and then potentially speak with an attorney in your area. Many attorneys will offer a free consultation, so call around and see if you potentially have a case.

Here is a link to your State Statutes for your information:
http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/titles.htm

I would like to add the reason that the Realtor, lawyer, builder, developer, and other sources may NOT be on the hook about the HOA...HOA documentation is considered PUBLIC INFORMATION. Simply put, the HOA's documentation is on file at your local courthouse in the records department. This is considered a PUBLIC place and records available for review at any time.

This is another factor why your lawsuit may not hold water if you were to sue. The court figures if it is PUBLIC information then it is your responsibility to look/view it. Much like the court considers local newspapers LEGAL NOTICES section in the classified section as "Public Notification". It's NOT their fault you don't buy or subscribe to the newspaper to read if any liens or foreclosures are going on against you. I've found several of our homeowners that were in foreclosure from their banks because I read this section... Plus our lawyer used this resource as an additional notice to any homeowner who refused a certified letter.

Agreed this isn't information people in general are aware of. It's always a lesson learned the hard way. However, IF you want to view your documentation, then make a run to your local courthouse to see what is legally filed as CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation (State level) should be there. The By-laws are optional to file.

Yes of course. Its called due diligence.



You didnt look at the deed before buying? Uggg.... Did you even read the deed at closing?

Yes. I pull the deed to every property I've bought or even interested in buying. If you don't look at the title/deed, how can you know what you are buying? The title describes what you are buying.

I've traced deeds all the way back to the 1900's because of a right away issue on a property I was looking at. Its really easy. Most of it can be searched online.

Did the disclosure of HOA exist when you purchased? Some of these laws are new. Many states still dont have HOA disclosure laws.

Everyone, you are wasting your time. It is obvious JB wants to sue somebody for his/her problems rather than putting on his/her grownup pants and dealing with the problem as an adult.

So to JB I say go for it, hire an attorney (I doubt one will take your case on a contingency fee) and sue everyone. At the end of the day you may be awarded your "damages" which at the most are the fee's they are trying to collect and if you're real lucky reasonable attorney fees. More than likely though the HOA will be able to provide proof that they mailed request after request for you to pay up which you ignored.