💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
By-laws are defined as "the rules and regulations adopted by a corporation for its internal governance. Bylaws usually contains provisions relating to shareholders, directors, officers and general corporate business."

We have one homeowner who has never owned a property in a HOA and of course she is an expert now after 10 months of owning the home. She is causing havoc in our meetings to the point that the BOD and officers all want to resign. Keep in mind we only have 12 homeowners, one is deceased, one is in foreclosure, two never come to meetings ever, 2 others have rented their houses and do not live in the subdivision and rarely if ever come to meetings. Basically no one wants the headache.

She wants our new by-laws to have everything in them, including quotes from the CCR's (which we believe is redundant)spell out the specific duties of our management company (there is a management agreement already) an owners bill of rights (who is going to write that???), a section regarding parking (which is already in our rules and regulations), wants to change how the CCR's spell out the term office for officers.

She also thinks the BOD should not make the decision and instead the entire membership should vote - like that would ever happen when hardly anyone every shows up to the annual meeting, let alone the BOD meetings!

PLEASE give us your professional opnions on how to kindly tell this person her by-laws are not for all the other stuff, but just for how the corporation is run????

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
I think you said it well: "by-laws are not for all the other stuff, but just for how the corporation is run".

As long as your revised by-laws comply with the Washington Statutes, you have it right. The Board however should control its meetings, limit the time a person may speak to 5 minutes, allow her to speak, thank her for her input and move on.

The "Homeowner's Bill of Rights" was something promoted by AARP several years back to protect homeowners form being foreclosed on for piddling amounts. Many of the sections have been implemented by the various states in legislation.

BILL OF RIGHTS FOR HOMEOWNERS
To ensure amicable and equitable relations between homeowners and their associations, this bill of rights seeks fair resolution of disputes, specifies rights regarding rules and charges, ensures individual autonomy, and promotes oversight and voting. The bill of rights uses reasonability as the touchstone for all actions, and includes a state Office of Ombudsperson for Homeowners to
facilitate resolution of disputes in a manner that strengthens communities.

I: The Right to Security against Foreclosure
An association shall not foreclose against a homeowner except for significant unpaid assessments, and any such foreclosure shall require judicial review to ensure fairness.

II: The Right to Resolve Disputes without Litigation
Homeowners and associations will have available alternative dispute resolution (ADR), although both parties preserve the right to litigate.

III: The Right to Fairness in Litigation
Where there is litigation between an association and a homeowner, and the homeowner prevails, the association shall pay attorney fees to a reasonable level.

IV: The Right to Be Told of All Rules and Charges
Homeowners shall be told--before buying--of the association’s broad powers, and the association may not exercise any power not clearly disclosed to the homeowner if the power unreasonably interferes with homeownership.

V: The Right to Stability in Rules and Charges
Homeowners shall have rights to vote to create, amend, or terminate deed restrictions and other important documents. Where an association’s directors have power to change operating rules, the homeowners shall have notice and an opportunity, by majority vote, to override new rules and charges.

VI: The Right to Individual Autonomy
Homeowners shall not surrender any essential rights of individual autonomy because they live in a common-interest community. Homeowners shall have the right to peaceful advocacy during elections and other votes as well as use of common areas.

VII: The Right to Oversight of Associations and Directors
Homeowners shall have reasonable access to records and meetings, as well as specified abilities to call special meetings, to obtain oversight of elections and other votes, and to recall directors.

VIII: The Right to Vote and Run for Office
Homeowners shall have well-defined voting rights, including secret ballots, and no director shall have a conflict of interest.

IX: The Right to Reasonable Associations and Directors
Associations, their directors and other agents, shall act reasonably in exercising their power over homeowners.

X: The Right to an Ombudsperson for Homeowners
Homeowners shall have fair interpretation of their rights through the state Office of Ombudsperson for Homeowners. The ombudsperson will enable state oversight where needed, and increases available information for all concerned.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
Glen's first paragraphs nail it.

The by-laws are how a corporation runs it's business. Hard to change, with good reason: this is the foundation of the company. Leave them alone, unless you are absolutely positive something is horribly wrong.

as for her role in the meeting, Glen is dead on again... the BOARD sets the agenda for the meeting, and that agenda should have a time for open comments from the floor. Set a time limit. Listen attentively. Nod now and again. Doodle, take notes, etc.. She has a right to speak, a right to be heard, and a right to be respected. She does NOT get to speak forever, nor does anything she say have to be dealt with, voted on, or discussed immediately. Give her the time, listen, even ask questions when she is done to clarify, then close the meeting.

If she does raise something worthwhile, then the board can motion to investigate it, discuss it, etc., and do so over the intervening time frame... nothing says you have to discuss it right then and there and make a decision. Investigate, and heck, involve her... ask her to do some footwork. Get some facts. Attend other HOA meetings, and ask around how they do things. Write a 25 page comparison report, with a return on investment data. Take a refresher class in time management, or effective meetings. Read a Carnegie book, or some other book on how businesses deal with these people in their meetings.

I had a similar issue here, and when we got elected as a new board, the first thing we did was all agree to give the "talkative/disruptive one" five minutes, uninterrupted, to say what she wanted at the meeting. We agreed to simply listen, and not say a word, not interrupt, not argue or challenge or rise to her baiting. She spoke, we thanked her, and moved on.

Now, she doesn't even speak anymore, because (i think), she finally feels like the board is listening to her, and that we aren't trying to shut her down. Now that the board isn't fighting back, being rude, and shouting her down, it's not so much fun, so she now attends, sits quietly, and goes home at the end.

The board runs the meeting, and the HOA. don't let a single person run the board. It's yours to control.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Karen:

Both Glen and Brian offer the best advice. I especially like Brian’s suggestions to give these type individuals “busy work”. Some individuals who go on tangents do so because they are potentially bored, and pestering the HOA (and sometimes fellow homeowners) gives them something to occupy their time. Just be sure any busy work is not something that potentially could step on toes or anger fellow homeowners.

To listen during input session, not say a word, thank the individual, and move on with business is how many other city, county, etc. meetings have been ran for a long time. Sometimes it takes biting your tongue until it bleeds or feels like it has gone through a meat grinder, but it does usually work well and pays better dividends in the end, it just sometimes requires a lot of patience.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Karen - HOW is she causing havoc at a meeting? WHY is she allowed to have the floor at a board meeting?

Do you have an "owner input" time on the agenda? If so, allow her to speak and limit the time.

Ask her if she has a motion to present for consideration.

All her concerns you listed seem out of order, since they already exist elsewhere BY VIRTUE of your governing documents.

Re: the homeowners rights, let her write some and she can see if there is support for them. But they must be vetted by your lawyer for compliance and legality.

Give her something to do. That's a good way to keep her busy.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 03/13/2011 7:17 AM
Karen - HOW is she causing havoc at a meeting? WHY is she allowed to have the floor at a board meeting?

Do you have an "owner input" time on the agenda? If so, allow her to speak and limit the time.

Ask her if she has a motion to present for consideration.

All her concerns you listed seem out of order, since they already exist elsewhere BY VIRTUE of your governing documents.

Re: the homeowners rights, let her write some and she can see if there is support for them. But they must be vetted by your lawyer for compliance and legality.

Give her something to do. That's a good way to keep her busy.

We have been having "advisory" meetings to discuss issues not official BOD meetings. She keeps bringing up errors our secretary made by not sending out a notice to all members of (1) BOD meeting. This person was new and once I told the new secretary that all BOD meetings were open to all members she has corrected that.

However, she did try to disrupt the last BOD meeting and was not given the opportunity. She again thinks everyone should vote on everything and not the BOD her quote "it's not fair". We did give her something to do, she volunteered to re-write the by-laws and then tried to muddle them with all this other stuff. Instead of trying to understand she has attacked us all. It's quite unsettling! She storms out each time, crying that she hates it here, etc.... SIGH!
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Thank you Glen, Brian, Janet and Susan for your comments and suggestions. This homeowner just sent an e-mail stating "now I see why no one comes to the meetings and I'm done". SIGH!
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 03/14/2011 11:16 AM
This homeowner just sent an e-mail stating "now I see why no one comes to the meetings and I'm done". SIGH!

Maybe no more issues. Everyone should understand they need to educate themselves first by reading not only their documents but also state statutes, then make suggestions. Some do not comprehend that any changes to documents cannot violate state statutes and which usually will spell out what is to be in the by-laws.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Ask her WHY she is upset that few people come to BOARD meetings? They are invited, because they have to be, but are not expected. Most folks are really not that interested. Newsletters should keep members apprised of HOA activities.

Most board meetings do not allow Member input during regular discussions, except when acknowldged by the presiding officer.

I am confused as to why she thinks she deserves this attention at a meeting that is not hers!

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
PS - Once the Board meeting calendar is announced , i.e. every second tues of every month, there is no need to send notices out to each homeowner.

We have one of those small sandwich boards set out announcing each board meeting. It is put out that day to remind folks about the evening meeting.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here