LindaS12 (Florida)
Posts: 13
Posts: 13
Posted:
If the BOD is conducting a meeting is there any way for the residents to "takeover" the meeting to discuss a topic? Our BOD has adjourned the meeting to keep from discussing what is presented to them.
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Can residents "takeover" a BOD meeting?
Started by LindaS12 • 16 replies • 2022 views
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DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posts: 5,671
Posted:
Linda,
You can call a "special meeting" of the members but if the Board is not addressing the Board meetings, then no you cannot mutany that meeting. Hold your own, figure out a startegy on what you are trying to accomplish. If the Board refuses to address an organized petition, then you have to go to the next step and start to recall them if reasoning is not working. What is the issue?
LindaS12 (Florida)
Posts: 13
Posts: 13
Posted:
Its about the BOD election. One of the board members changed their vote and the person who was announced as the winner is not on the board, another person is instead. The BOD did hold a meeting but when this topic was raised they adjourned the meeting "due to an emergency". But the board member stayed in the parking lot to talk afterward....in no apparent hurry to leave the premises.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
Votes for BoD members are cast by ballot. They cannot be changed after submission. A recount may discover an error but even that is questuonable and beyond my understanding as haow to resolve.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Wasn't all of this discussed in this thread?
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/108907/view/topic/Default.aspx
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/108907/view/topic/Default.aspx
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
I would imagine 90% of the discussions have been addressed before.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
720.303 Association powers and duties; meetings of board; official records; budgets; financial reporting; association funds; recalls.—
(2) BOARD MEETINGS.— 3. (d) If 20 percent of the total voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, take the petitioned item up on an agenda. The board shall give all members notice of the meeting at which the petitioned item shall be addressed in accordance with the 14-day notice requirement pursuant to subparagraph (c)2. Each member shall have the right to speak for at least 3 minutes on each matter placed on the agenda by petition, provided that the member signs the sign-up sheet, if one is provided, or submits a written request to speak prior to the meeting. Other than addressing the petitioned item at the meeting, the board is not obligated to take any other action requested by the petition.
(2) BOARD MEETINGS.— 3. (d) If 20 percent of the total voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, take the petitioned item up on an agenda. The board shall give all members notice of the meeting at which the petitioned item shall be addressed in accordance with the 14-day notice requirement pursuant to subparagraph (c)2. Each member shall have the right to speak for at least 3 minutes on each matter placed on the agenda by petition, provided that the member signs the sign-up sheet, if one is provided, or submits a written request to speak prior to the meeting. Other than addressing the petitioned item at the meeting, the board is not obligated to take any other action requested by the petition.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
AnnD2 (Connecticut)
Posts: 76
Posts: 76
Posted:
The fact that HOA's are supposed to be democratically run organizations is often lost on many boards. If your bylaws don't specifically address this issue, you can look to two references I have found helpful: www.robertsrules.com and "Become an Effective Condo Board Member" by Sandra R. Rosen. Both support ways by which open discussion can be ensured and provided.
The fact is that boards that do not allow for open discussion of issues end up fostering ill will, resentment and distrust which undermine their effectiveness and the peace of mind of its community members. Trying to control things, because a few board members feel they know best, is misguided and undemocratic.
It also can quickly and easily led to abuse of power and mismanagement. If a person can't deal with conflict and criticism, they have no business being on a board whose business will require them to deal with both often....Good boards encourage debate and discussion as a means by which the best and most satisfactory solutions can be found for the entire community's benefit...not that of a few, entitled narcissists.
The fact is that boards that do not allow for open discussion of issues end up fostering ill will, resentment and distrust which undermine their effectiveness and the peace of mind of its community members. Trying to control things, because a few board members feel they know best, is misguided and undemocratic.
It also can quickly and easily led to abuse of power and mismanagement. If a person can't deal with conflict and criticism, they have no business being on a board whose business will require them to deal with both often....Good boards encourage debate and discussion as a means by which the best and most satisfactory solutions can be found for the entire community's benefit...not that of a few, entitled narcissists.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Linda - to answer your question. No, members can't "take over" a board meeting.
It's a board meeting, for goodness sake!
However, you DO have options. If your bylaws or state statues allow Member input, use that time to request an Ad Hoc committee or an investigation of the entire issue. You can tell the board that they are out of order in what they did and the Members will take action on the improper implementation of the election results.
Then go do just that: Call a Special Meeting of the Members, hold a Mass Meeting, or start a Recall.
Call in an expert to explain to the Board all your state's codes or a parliamentarian to explain election processes.
The Membership has the final authority and the most power in the HOA. You just have to weave through the system to use it.
It's a board meeting, for goodness sake!
However, you DO have options. If your bylaws or state statues allow Member input, use that time to request an Ad Hoc committee or an investigation of the entire issue. You can tell the board that they are out of order in what they did and the Members will take action on the improper implementation of the election results.
Then go do just that: Call a Special Meeting of the Members, hold a Mass Meeting, or start a Recall.
Call in an expert to explain to the Board all your state's codes or a parliamentarian to explain election processes.
The Membership has the final authority and the most power in the HOA. You just have to weave through the system to use it.
GaryL3 (Florida)
Posts: 32
Posts: 32
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnD2 on 03/11/2011 5:06 AM
The fact that HOA's are supposed to be democratically run organizations is often lost on many boards. If your bylaws don't specifically address this issue, you can look to two references I have found helpful: www.robertsrules.com and "Become an Effective Condo Board Member" by Sandra R. Rosen. Both support ways by which open discussion can be ensured and provided.
The fact is that boards that do not allow for open discussion of issues end up fostering ill will, resentment and distrust which undermine their effectiveness and the peace of mind of its community members. Trying to control things, because a few board members feel they know best, is misguided and undemocratic.
It also can quickly and easily led to abuse of power and mismanagement. If a person can't deal with conflict and criticism, they have no business being on a board whose business will require them to deal with both often....Good boards encourage debate and discussion as a means by which the best and most satisfactory solutions can be found for the entire community's benefit...not that of a few, entitled narcissists.
The fact that HOA's are supposed to be democratically run organizations is often lost on many boards. If your bylaws don't specifically address this issue, you can look to two references I have found helpful: www.robertsrules.com and "Become an Effective Condo Board Member" by Sandra R. Rosen. Both support ways by which open discussion can be ensured and provided.
The fact is that boards that do not allow for open discussion of issues end up fostering ill will, resentment and distrust which undermine their effectiveness and the peace of mind of its community members. Trying to control things, because a few board members feel they know best, is misguided and undemocratic.
It also can quickly and easily led to abuse of power and mismanagement. If a person can't deal with conflict and criticism, they have no business being on a board whose business will require them to deal with both often....Good boards encourage debate and discussion as a means by which the best and most satisfactory solutions can be found for the entire community's benefit...not that of a few, entitled narcissists.
Remember in Florida there is one set of statutes for HOA's (FS720) and a another one for Condos (FS718). Is this a condo board meeting of HOA bord meeting?
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
It never ceases to amaze me that people who have never served on a Board now suddenly decide THEY know what needs to be done, how and why.
It never ceases to amaze me that every property has a few folks who seem to think they speak for what is "right", "proper" and needed for the good operation of the property. But they never ask themselves why they can't seem to find enough support for their beliefs to give them the opportunity to implement their ideas. Then they suggest "democratic" priciples should rule the day but when they are unsuccessful in their attempts to win a seat on the Board they find fault with this very same process. So democracy is only good when they vote for me. I read my documents several times over the years and the words democracy, or democratic are no where to be found. Sort of having it both ways. Maybe the reason you don't get your way is because the majority of people don't agree with you.
Then when all else fails this same group now turns to the government to put in place some laws or regulations that support YOUR belief on how things should be and how things need to be run. Yes that certainly will speed up the porcess bring in the state government add a few do nothing jobs and accomplish nothing. But you know what's best never having spent one day doing the job you know all about.
From reading this forum I would seem to think those states with MORE government regulation and requirements have MORE issues not less. Florida, California, Arizona etc. This behavior is prohibited, every word spoken must be in front of every member of the association, can't use e-mail, can't meet outside a announced Board meeting, basically can't get anything done. And this is better?
IMO if you wish to change the way things are be willing to do the work and get yourself on the Board and IF possible get some like thinkers to join also and get the job done. Don't blame the system. Don't suggest every HOA has the same issues yours does. They don't. And don't come with the idea your sense of right and wrong is ANY better than every other porperty owner in your community. It is not.
Many HOAs/condos are set up as corporations with a Board that makes day to day decisions in the operation of that property. It is not a democracy set up where the Board has to obtain the support of the entire membership on each and every decision to be made. So folks sitting in the cheap seats think that is the way it should be. I disagree.
So easy to find fault with those that volunteer their time to manage your property. My question would be what have YOU ever done for a positive reason? Other then pushing your agenda.
It never ceases to amaze me that every property has a few folks who seem to think they speak for what is "right", "proper" and needed for the good operation of the property. But they never ask themselves why they can't seem to find enough support for their beliefs to give them the opportunity to implement their ideas. Then they suggest "democratic" priciples should rule the day but when they are unsuccessful in their attempts to win a seat on the Board they find fault with this very same process. So democracy is only good when they vote for me. I read my documents several times over the years and the words democracy, or democratic are no where to be found. Sort of having it both ways. Maybe the reason you don't get your way is because the majority of people don't agree with you.
Then when all else fails this same group now turns to the government to put in place some laws or regulations that support YOUR belief on how things should be and how things need to be run. Yes that certainly will speed up the porcess bring in the state government add a few do nothing jobs and accomplish nothing. But you know what's best never having spent one day doing the job you know all about.
From reading this forum I would seem to think those states with MORE government regulation and requirements have MORE issues not less. Florida, California, Arizona etc. This behavior is prohibited, every word spoken must be in front of every member of the association, can't use e-mail, can't meet outside a announced Board meeting, basically can't get anything done. And this is better?
IMO if you wish to change the way things are be willing to do the work and get yourself on the Board and IF possible get some like thinkers to join also and get the job done. Don't blame the system. Don't suggest every HOA has the same issues yours does. They don't. And don't come with the idea your sense of right and wrong is ANY better than every other porperty owner in your community. It is not.
Many HOAs/condos are set up as corporations with a Board that makes day to day decisions in the operation of that property. It is not a democracy set up where the Board has to obtain the support of the entire membership on each and every decision to be made. So folks sitting in the cheap seats think that is the way it should be. I disagree.
So easy to find fault with those that volunteer their time to manage your property. My question would be what have YOU ever done for a positive reason? Other then pushing your agenda.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posts: 279
Posted:
I agree with much of what you say, Jon, but I don't agree that having more details spelled out in statute somehow makes it harder to navigate the sometimes choppy waters of living in a common interest development.
I've lived in a California HOA for 24 years, and for the most part, it's been pretty smooth. I do agree with you that people who don't get their way have a tendency to try to take control of their communities by hook or by crook, and if bullying and intimidation don't work, they will try to find a state legislator who will slip an HOA-related bill into a larger package, just to change the law so they can can skate on their association fees, or whatever.
However, that said, without clearly defined statutes to rely on, a ridiculously large number of issues erupt into conflicts that are often decided by who amasses the loudest screamers at a board meeting.
I don't know who said it first, but I really hold to it:
Truth is not decided by a majority vote.
Rob
I've lived in a California HOA for 24 years, and for the most part, it's been pretty smooth. I do agree with you that people who don't get their way have a tendency to try to take control of their communities by hook or by crook, and if bullying and intimidation don't work, they will try to find a state legislator who will slip an HOA-related bill into a larger package, just to change the law so they can can skate on their association fees, or whatever.
However, that said, without clearly defined statutes to rely on, a ridiculously large number of issues erupt into conflicts that are often decided by who amasses the loudest screamers at a board meeting.
I don't know who said it first, but I really hold to it:
Truth is not decided by a majority vote.
Rob
LindaS12 (Florida)
Posts: 13
Posts: 13
Posted:
Jon...thanks for your comments, but you know nothing about this community of homes. The people in question here keep pushing the envelope further and further.
As far as what have I done? I have volunteered since I have lived here...ran committees, put together community events several times a year, and am a neighborhood representative. I was very involved...until certain board members decided the community does not need any committees or events/gatherings. The residents loved all of the events, especially the holiday ones.
Not all board members agreed with this and still dont but it made no difference. It was not that costly either as we got a lot of donations from merchants. Sooo...when you have a BOD as we do involvement is not an option and has
Sounds as if you have a lot of anger.
As far as what have I done? I have volunteered since I have lived here...ran committees, put together community events several times a year, and am a neighborhood representative. I was very involved...until certain board members decided the community does not need any committees or events/gatherings. The residents loved all of the events, especially the holiday ones.
Not all board members agreed with this and still dont but it made no difference. It was not that costly either as we got a lot of donations from merchants. Sooo...when you have a BOD as we do involvement is not an option and has
Sounds as if you have a lot of anger.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaS12 on 03/11/2011 1:19 PM
Jon...thanks for your comments, but you know nothing about this community of homes. The people in question here keep pushing the envelope further and further.
As far as what have I done? I have volunteered since I have lived here...ran committees, put together community events several times a year, and am a neighborhood representative. I was very involved...until certain board members decided the community does not need any committees or events/gatherings. The residents loved all of the events, especially the holiday ones.
Not all board members agreed with this and still dont but it made no difference. It was not that costly either as we got a lot of donations from merchants. Sooo...when you have a BOD as we do involvement is not an option and has
Sounds as if you have a lot of anger.
Jon...thanks for your comments, but you know nothing about this community of homes. The people in question here keep pushing the envelope further and further.
As far as what have I done? I have volunteered since I have lived here...ran committees, put together community events several times a year, and am a neighborhood representative. I was very involved...until certain board members decided the community does not need any committees or events/gatherings. The residents loved all of the events, especially the holiday ones.
Not all board members agreed with this and still dont but it made no difference. It was not that costly either as we got a lot of donations from merchants. Sooo...when you have a BOD as we do involvement is not an option and has
Sounds as if you have a lot of anger.
So Linda just what is the issue you have with your Board? Do you and a few homeowners wish to take over the meeting to discuss an election or perhaps the loss of community events? And WHY is it difficult for you to explain in detail rather then giving limited information?
How many owners are we talking about? Out of how many property owners?
Just how did these folks get on your Board? Were they voted into their positions or did they appoint themselves?
And if as you claim the residents loved all the events you took part in why don't they push to have them continued? Or if the Board took something away that MOST owners find useful why has the Board not been held accountable?
That's how the system works. You might not like the outcome then do something about it. Change the members of the Board, IF you can or live with their decisions.
Many times people come to this site and are less then open in their motivations and details as to what has occured in total. I would guess this is one of those times. First you state a rather simple question can a group of owners "take over" the Board meeting held by the ELECTED Board? As someone who claims to have been involved in your property does that really sound like a positive option?
IMO sounds like MOB rule.
Now you mention some envelope being pushed further and further as proof the Board has acted improperly. Just WHAT does that mean?
And I like the way you word your explanations. "SOME" on the Board stopped the social gatherings not "ALL" the Board members agree but that doesn't matter. So let me guess your "SOME" equals a MAJORITY of the Board. And your "NOT ALL" equals it was not a unanimous decision. Was that the case Linda or is your property one of the few where the minority makes decisions over the majority?
Sounds to me Linda like you have issues with your Board. Election discussions, or social gatherings I'm not sure or it could be their pushing the envelope (whatever that means) but I find usually when folks give few real details or a clear explanation of the issues involved they are twisiting the facts to support their views by omission.
And I'm sorry if you and a few others don't have the support to force the Board to act as you like then simply "taking over" the Board meeting should not have been an option IMO. That's not how the system works but I would guess you know that simply doesn't suit your agenda.
Just where would you or anyone else get the idea that simply "taking over" a meeting to suit your purpose would be the responsible thing to do? And that's a position of majority of your home owners would support? I have my doubts.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posts: 482
Posted:
You could circulate a petition to have a Special Meeting. At the Special Meeting (and assuming that there is a quorum), you could probably present a resolution for the membership to vote on. If it passed, the Board would have to follow it.
You can "continue" the Board Meeting but nothing that takes place is official. You could talk and take straw votes but the Board wouldn't have to obey them.
Even if the Board is violating the Bylaws, that doesn't give a license to everybody else. If the Board is holding illegal meetings or running them in invalid ways, that doesn't open it up to allow everybody to run illegal meetings (and have them treated as official meetings). You can't just make up Bylaws and rules about meetings that make sense and seem fair to you.
You can "continue" the Board Meeting but nothing that takes place is official. You could talk and take straw votes but the Board wouldn't have to obey them.
Even if the Board is violating the Bylaws, that doesn't give a license to everybody else. If the Board is holding illegal meetings or running them in invalid ways, that doesn't open it up to allow everybody to run illegal meetings (and have them treated as official meetings). You can't just make up Bylaws and rules about meetings that make sense and seem fair to you.
LindaS12 (Florida)
Posts: 13
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thanks Daniel. I think a special board meeting is what is going to happen. There are several residents upset by the action of one of the BOD.
This director "changed" the original submitted vote. A "corrected ballot" was made after the annual meeting was adjourned. People who attended the meeting do not know what happened. Several residents were waiting to see if, and what action the BOD was going to take before they come forward.
This director "changed" the original submitted vote. A "corrected ballot" was made after the annual meeting was adjourned. People who attended the meeting do not know what happened. Several residents were waiting to see if, and what action the BOD was going to take before they come forward.
LindaS12 (Florida)
Posts: 13
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thanks Daniel. I think a special board meeting is what is going to happen. There are several residents upset by the action of one of the BOD.
This director "changed" the original submitted vote. A "corrected ballot" was made after the annual meeting was adjourned. People who attended the meeting do not know what happened. Several residents were waiting to see if, and what action the BOD was going to take before they come forward.
This director "changed" the original submitted vote. A "corrected ballot" was made after the annual meeting was adjourned. People who attended the meeting do not know what happened. Several residents were waiting to see if, and what action the BOD was going to take before they come forward.
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