Speaking at Condo Board Meetings

We are a Condo association in Florida. At the monthly board meetings, owners are not allowed to speak until the very end of the meeting when there is a line item on the agenda titled "Owner Input". Even then, it's blown through very quickly. It's apparent very little owner input is desired. At the beginning of the meeting the president states the meetings will be held adhering to Roberts Rules as written in the condo bylaws. After reading through some of the Florida Condo Law it is stated under Board of Association Meetings that the right of owners to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated agenda items. The association may adopt written rules governing the frequency, duration and manner of unit owner statements. My question is....is the board in violation of state law by not opening up agenda items for discussion with the owners or do the condo bylaws supercede this statute? My gut says state laws would always prevail. And, if this is the case, what is the best way to present this without upsetting the apple cart?

Hi Gary:

The state statute below supersedes the HOA documents. A state statute will not supersede if the statute makes a reference for example: “unless otherwise specified in the governing documents”. With this type statement the HOA governing documents would rule. The best way to present is to politely request to speak on an agenda item per State Statute 718.112 which states that homeowners have a right to attend these meetings and … The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated agenda items.

The association can adopt reasonable rules such as possibly each owner can speak once per item, each owner can speak for five minutes, etc.

718.112 Bylaws. —

(c) Board of administration meetings.—Meetings of the board of administration at which a quorum of the members is present shall be open to all unit owners. Any unit owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of administration. The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated agenda items. The division shall adopt reasonable rules governing the tape recording and videotaping of the meeting. The association may adopt written reasonable rules governing the frequency, duration, and manner of unit owner statements. Adequate notice of all meetings, which notice shall specifically incorporate an identification of agenda items, shall be posted conspicuously on the condominium property at least 48 continuous hours preceding the meeting except in an emergency. If 20 percent of the voting interests petition the board to address an item of business, the board shall at its next regular board meeting or at a special meeting of the board, but not later than 60 days after the receipt of the petition, place the item on the agenda. Any item not included on the notice may be taken up on an emergency basis by at least a majority plus one of the members of the board. Such emergency action shall be noticed and ratified at the next regular meeting of the board. However, written notice of any meeting at which nonemergency special assessments, or at which amendment to rules regarding unit use, will be considered shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the unit owners and posted conspicuously on the condominium property not less than 14 days prior to the meeting. Evidence of compliance with this 14-day notice shall be made by an affidavit executed by the person providing the notice and filed among the official records of the association. Upon notice to the unit owners, the board shall by duly adopted rule designate a specific location on the condominium property or association property upon which all notices of board meetings shall be posted. If there is no condominium property or association property upon which notices can be posted, notices of board meetings shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted at least 14 days before the meeting to the owner of each unit. In lieu of or in addition to the physical posting of notice of any meeting of the board of administration on the condominium property, the association may, by reasonable rule, adopt a procedure for conspicuously posting and repeatedly broadcasting the notice and the agenda on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the condominium association. However, if broadcast notice is used in lieu of a notice posted physically on the condominium property, the notice and agenda must be broadcast at least four times every broadcast hour of each day that a posted notice is otherwise required under this section. When broadcast notice is provided, the notice and agenda must be broadcast in a manner and for a sufficient continuous length of time so as to allow an average reader to observe the notice and read and comprehend the entire content of the notice and the agenda. Notice of any meeting in which regular or special assessments against unit owners are to be considered for any reason shall specifically state that assessments will be considered and the nature, estimated cost, and description of the purposes for such assessments. Meetings of a committee to take final action on behalf of the board or make recommendations to the board regarding the association budget are subject to the provisions of this paragraph. Meetings of a committee that does not take final action on behalf of the board or make recommendations to the board regarding the association budget are subject to the provisions of this section, unless those meetings are exempted from this section by the bylaws of the association. Notwithstanding any other law, the requirement that board meetings and committee meetings be open to the unit owners is inapplicable to meetings between the board or a committee and the association’s attorney, with respect to proposed or pending litigation, when the meeting is held for the purpose of seeking or rendering legal advice.

In my opinion, all HOAs should develop a set of qualifications for serving on the Board that would include passing an exam built around the Association governing documents and HOA civil code.

Most of the problems discussed here stem from ignorance of these documents and codes, either on the part of the complaining homeowner or the Board members.

Rob

I guess I've been living here too long (24 years). I was on the board for 7 years, 5 of them as president. I still go to board meetings when I need to, since I'm the Architectural Control Committee chair, and it's pretty obvious that very few of the people in the room have a clue what is required, what is legal, and what is fair and balanced. You obviously can't make a rule that only wise people can be board members, but you could certainly require that they be familiar with the rules, covenants and laws they will be basing their decisions on.

Rob

Thanks for your input. I guess my main concern is that although the BOD can implement rules, is it reasonable to wait until after the meeting has passed that particular agenda item to be able to respond to it. Having to wait until the end of the meeting is a waste of time to reopen an agenda item that has already been discussed. It might also have already been voted on. By then it's too late. It seems to me the intent of the statute would be being allowed to speak as that agenda item is being discussed and before it is voted on.

The right to attend such meetings includes the right to speak at such meetings with reference to all designated agenda items. The association may adopt written reasonable rules governing the frequency, duration, and manner of unit owner statements.

No, not it at all. It's just the current procedure of the board has alienated a number of good owners that have constructive input and don't get a chance to voice their views as is their right. The problem is they do not know they have a right to speak. It's been going on so long that the board president has squelched input from the owners citing "Roberts Rules" denying input until the end of the meeting. I want to change that. There are ways to limit discussion without it getting out of hand.

The homeowners of our Assoc. are very disruptive during any meeting, to the point that we had to remove some. I would not have a problem letting them speak during a Board Meeting, but they went on very long tangents, which in our situation did not accomplish anything. So now they can attend, but not speak until the end and we set a time limit. We also ask them to leave if we have to discuss a somewhat delicate matter.

And if 60 people show up at the board meeting, and all want to speak, what then? 60 x 3 = 180 minutes. Would you expect 5 volunteer board members to sit through 3 hours of homeowner input before starting the work of dealing with the action items on the agenda? How many people do you think would want to volunteer to serve on the board under those conditions?

Rob

What I have noticed is a tendency for naive homeowners to think that all any board needs is their brilliant input. They may run for the board and win (I mean, how hard is that, in most cases?), and then sit there, month after month, trying to make motions and vote, solely using their logic and their version of common sense as a basis for their actions.

You see the same thing here in these forums, from time to time. Logic and common sense only have value if exercised on a foundation of knowledge. If someone wants to sit on a board, making decisions that effect hundreds (or even thousands) of lives, he or she better study like crazy, and come at these issues from a position of power. Trust me on this.

Rob

Hi Janet,

As you stated, we have 177 units here, and the number of people living here is around 500.

At most board meetings, maybe 2 homeowners show up, and only because they have a personal issue of some kind. But raise the Association fees, and if the increase % is high enough, you might get 50 - 60 at the meeting. That's exactly what happened at the January meeting. This mob of homeowners attempted to intimidate the board into backing down from going through with the increase by shouting and interrupting the president - mostly in Russian - preventing her from speaking. That's the dark side of homeowner participation.

As you say, there needs to be a balance, but it's not always obvious how that balance can be achieved.

Rob

Hi Gary

Thanks for posting this topic.

The longest meeting I have been to was about 2 hours, give or take. Most are about an hour long. Attendance seems to average about 30 - 50 owners. Our HOA provides 2 sections in the meeting where owners may comment.

The 1st section is after the meeting has been called to order. The president invites all owners for comments to be made on any agenda item. Time limit is 5 minutes. Generally speaking, I've only seen a few people speak at this time and the whole 5 minutes for each owner are not exhausted.

When owners comment on agenda items, it is BEFORE board members have discussed and or voted on the agenda item. Owner comments convey an owner's view, which may or may not affect the outcome of the item discussion or vote. Once spoken and once the board begins their meeting, there is nothing more an owner can do but to observe the process. The way the board discusses and votes on the issue conveys whether owner comments had any impact on the board.

The 2nd section is at the end of the meeting - AFTER the discussion and vote. Comments here have no impact on discussion unless further discussion (or voting) on the item was postponed until the next meeting.

In a meeting last year, an item was NOT on the agenda under new business but was discussed during the new business for 5-10 minutes by the board members.[No owner or BOD member caught this as inappropriate meeting procedure]. After discussion, a motion for vote was called & seconded, the item was approved. Owners were astonished at not only the surprise item topic but the swift action concluding in approval and expenditure cost of over $3000 which was not budgeted in the prior year's pro-forma budget.

Our only time to comment was at the end of the meeting. Certainly unfair when you consider the established protocol in our HOA board meeting of having owners comment on agenda items. Straying from placing this item on the agenda afforded the BOD two things - no owner input before discussion and a successful unobstructed path for approval by the BOD with one dissenting vote.

The common sense expressed in the owners forum AFTER the vote, was disregarded. The project commenced the very next day and completed within a week. The validity of the discussion, approval and expenditure remains questionable & is a sore spot for some owners. It is now known this was in violation of the Davis Stirling Act, specifically the Open Meeting Act, California Civil Code 1363.05.

I live in CA and might also add that in both owner sections of the meeting, board members are limited to a brief response or question for clarification in either section for owner comments. I believe there are not intended to be debate sections. They are merely venues for opinion and comment by owners whether negative or positive.

Barbara,

You make good points. I spoke with our HOA president about this, and here is what she said:

"In California, we aren't required to allow homeowners to speak whenever they want, and there's nothing in the civil code or our governing documents that sets a particular time in the meeting when homeowners' concerns are heard. We have tried having the period before the meetings, at the beginning of the meetings, and after the business of the board has been concluded. There doesn't seem to be any perfect solution.

Our unofficial policy is to allow homeowners in attendance to speak throughout the meeting, since we generally have only 2-4 homeowners who show up. We generally find it helpful to get input, since homeowners may be able to shed light on action items that might otherwise be tabled for lack of information. If a homeowner is merely there to hear himself talk, or to disrupt the meeting, we deal with it. Ordinarily, it's not a problem."

What do you think? This seems like a very civilized approach to me.

Rob

Rob, Peter's right. What you cited has nothing to do with Condo law.

My mistake. Overlooked that we were not using "condominium" in the generic sense. Nevertheless, my advice still stands.

The board in question still needs to be made aware that homeowners have a right to speak, and the best way to get that done is just as I suggested: Print out 718.112, submit it in advance of the next board meeting, along with a request that it be added to the agenda, and a written request to speak about it during or before the item is discussed at the meeting. In other words, formalize the subject so that whatever the board decides goes into the minutes.

By the way, did you know about the proposed bill SB1516? It's attempt to bring parity to the the Condominium and HOA statures in Florida. Short article here.

Rob

When our Board sends out the notification of a meeting, we asked that if a homeowner has a concern he or she has to present it in written form so that it can be placed on the agenda. We also remind people of Robert's Rule, though it does not always work. I cannot stress enough, that Board Members become educated in condo law and the Declaration and Bylaws of their HOA.
All the previous reasons cited, I resigned as Pres., but will remain as Treasurer. Homeowners have a tendency to burn Board Members out, atleast in our HOA. Some Homeowners should have rented an apartment, because they do not realize, that when they buy a condominium it comes with responsibilities and that the Board is not a doormat.

I now am the Pres. of a Condominium HOA in Charleston, all buyers are vetted by the developer, no rentals, it is an absolute pleasure dealing with the homeowners there. The homeowners are very well versed in our Condo Declaration/By laws and participate in all meetings in a professional manner.

I agree with Rob, Gary. Everyone has been trying to be helpful and I've learned a few things from these posts too. Thank you, everyone! Carol

Hi Gary

My post was intended to show an example of how board meetings are held in my HOA.

I was under the impression that condo or home associations held the 'principle' of board meetings in common (not necessarily the specifics). My comments were meant to expand the larger picture, to show the possibilities available for successful meetings. I now realize that my comments were irrelevant and inappropriate in your specific situation.

Before this post is put to rest, I contributed in your post getting off the subject and I apologize.

Hope there are no hard feelings - none exist with me.

Gary,

Upon rereading my post, I can see why you might have felt I was being patronizing. I do apologize, since that wasn't my intention. And yes, I cited HOA rather than Condo statute, for which I also apologize, and I hope you will accept it. That said, you seem to be overlooking my advice, which was based on 24 years of experience, which was: get the issue in writing, and present it in such a way as to memorialize it in the minutes. You seem to have gotten stuck on the way the advice was presented, and not on the advice itself.

I do take exception, however, to your criticisms of me, personally. You don't know me at all, and you have no basis for those criticisms. My only motivation is to help make my little corner of the universe a better place, and I have to say that I'm mostly successful at this. Most of us who serve our communities as directors, officers or committee members do so out of a sense of enlightened self-interest. The more information we share, the better off we all are. Not every attempt is a home run, but that's irrelevant.

I hope you will take this in the spirit in which it's intended. I have no wish to fight with you, or with anyone. I'll be more careful to do my homework in the future.

Best regards,

Rob