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BoDs has decided not to enforce homeowners to remove snow from sidewalks in front of homes

Started by SusanD415 replies • 1649 views

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SusanD4 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
The CC&Rs simply state that homeowners must maintain sidewalks on their property.

The original BoD accepted complaints about homeowners not removing snow and they did send violation notices, etc. However, the new board members have claimed that they do not have the right to enforce snow removal because the CC&Rs only use the word maintain.

Please weigh in with your thoughts. IMO, this is creating a huge liability for the HOA.

How can I convince them that they need to enforce homeowners responsibility to remove snow from their sidewalks?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
With the snowfall this year? Everyone should get a break.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
interesting. I see the side that keeping snow off sidewalks is maintenance. However, i can see a strict interpretation being "the sidewalk is still there, under the ice and snow, in sound condition. Thus, it is being maintained."

who will get sued if they slip and fall on the sidewalk?
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Susan:

I would bet if you check your local city ordinance this is something covered. My city requires homeowners to remove snow from the sidewalk in front of their property. So even if our CCR's did not have this provision it is required by the local government.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
If the sidewalk is ON their property then you would be trespassing when using it wouldn't you?
SusanD4 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Not true. There is no Village ordinance that requires removal of snow.

The state of Illinois, however, has a law that states that if a homeowner has made a reasonable attempt to remove snow and ice from their sidewalks that they cannot be held liable for any injury commencing from a slip or fall on the sidewalk.
SusanD4 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PeterD3 on 02/18/2011 2:48 PM
If the sidewalk is ON their property then you would be trespassing when using it wouldn't you?

Not true in this case. There is no Village ordinance that requires removal of snow.

The state of Illinois, however, has a law that states that if a homeowner has made a reasonable attempt to remove snow and ice from their sidewalks that they cannot be held liable for any injury commencing from a slip or fall on the sidewalk.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
If it only states "maintain sidewalks", then maybe this needs to be clarified with a vote to amend if it is causing a huge problem. This way there would be no doubt exactly what "maintain" entails.
SusanD4 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 02/18/2011 2:33 PM
With the snowfall this year? Everyone should get a break.


Your argument cuts both ways. I do believe that people deserve a break in that it takes more time to deal with snow, but because the snow is two-feet deep, it NEEDS to be removed in a responsible manner.

Children still need to get to and from the bus stops. People with active dogs still need to walk their pets.

BECAUSE there is so much snow it is really quite dangerous for people to walk in the streets. Don't you think?

Furthermore, I am not talking about just this year. I just discovered this change but they made the change two years ago because there were so many complaints the BoD simply decided not to send any notices. (In other words, they are being lazy.)

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Susan,

Rather then have different Boards interpret the covenants different ways (and like Brian, I can see an argument being made for either interpretation), I would suggest that you propose a snow policy resolution to the Board so there is no more confusion.

IMO, I had initially proposed a policy that said residents were responsible for the snow removal from the sidewalks in front of their home. However, when I looked at it from the view of the Association, I saw where that same policy would indicate that the Association would be responsible for removing the snow from sidewalks that only bordered common area. Once the board looked into the expense of hiring people to do this the board chose not to adopt the policy.

Fortunately, our development has a good sense of community and most people pitch in to clear walks on the common area and even their neighbors sidewalk.

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanD4 on 02/18/2011 3:09 PM

(In other words, they are being lazy.)

Susan,

If you believe that this is the case, I would suggest that you offer your services to serve those notices on behalf of the Board.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Good points on your proposed policy Tim, I had not looked at it that way but you are right it would be additional HOA expense. We have not run into this issue because at this time our development is similar to yours, all neighbors help each other and everyone pitches in as needed. I sincerely hope it always stays that way.

AnnD2 (Connecticut)
Posts: 76
Posted:
Is a law always required in order to do the right thing? Clearly, snow and ice present a danger to pedestrians--especially mail carriers and the elderly. The decent and responsible thing is to make a good faith effort to clear sidewalks.

We had lots of snow and ice this past winter. My condo had the walks shoveled, but they iced up. I went out and broke up the ice, because I didn't want it on my conscience that someone fell and got hurt....Why is this even a question?
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnD2 on 02/19/2011 5:58 AM
Is a law always required in order to do the right thing? Clearly, snow and ice present a danger to pedestrians--especially mail carriers and the elderly. The decent and responsible thing is to make a good faith effort to clear sidewalks.

We had lots of snow and ice this past winter. My condo had the walks shoveled, but they iced up. I went out and broke up the ice, because I didn't want it on my conscience that someone fell and got hurt....Why is this even a question?

I think it's important to call out a big distinction between condos and HOAs. With condos you typically don't own outside your walls. In fact it's not uncommon for condo associations to have rules prohibiting homeowners from taking on maintenance tasks (for a variety of reasons). With condos many times folks who move in do so because they're not interested in or capable of the rigors of regular home ownership (due to age, career, whatever).

In no way am I faulting you for being a good neighbor, I just want to point out that when you're dealing with a condo (as opposed to an HOA) these types of things are almost always the association's responsibility. It's not fair to expect a few well intentioned owners to take on tasks that benefit everybody.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DennisT on 02/19/2011 10:12 AM
It's not fair to expect a few well intentioned owners to take on tasks that benefit everybody.

Isn't this exactly what we ask our Board Members to do?

Dennis,

I do understand your post. I believe that most States even identify Condo's and other Associations differently (based on the fact that most have adopted separate laws that apply only to Condos).

You statement, quoted above, struck a cord with me as typically the BOD is made up of a few well intentioned owners taking on tasks that benefit everybody. Yes there are always the few who are there for their own agenda but I believe most are not.

I agree, it isn't fair.

Tim
SusanD4 (Illinois)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thanks for the responses.

Our HOA already is responsible for clearing all common areas of snow. We, as members, pay for the services with our monthly dues.

I also agree to deliver the notices, if that is what it takes, but we (the HOA) already pay a service to do this. But, I will be sure to offer my assistance.

The only problem is the sidewalks in front of residences. The most amazing habit has formed among many residents where they remove snow from their driveways and pile the snow into mounds on the sidewalks on either side of the driveway.

I recently wrenched my back while climbing over one of these mounds and have now been in pain and out of commission for over two weeks.

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