Satellite Dish

Started by DavidA7 • 13 replies • 3944 views

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DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Hello everyone,

I know a lot of posting on this issue but a little different angle request for information.

A couple of years ago a homeowner placed a satellite dish on A/C platform that is located on the roof. The A/C platform consist of two HVAC units for seperate units. Unit owner then ran cable down side of wall and drilled into wall to run wire. The latter being definately illegal per my understanding as they breached HOA owned property. At the time the Board thought that the A/C platform was owned by the Unit owner. I filed complaint about the installation indicating that I felt that the platform was owned by the HOA and that drilling into the HOA common wall was illegal. The Board would not act on it and I was verbally told the Board did not want to act against the unit owner. Politics.

Recently, I had to have repairs on my A/C platform (located on another building and also a shared platform) and the HOA determined that it was HOA owned property since our CC&Rs indicated since there was two HVAC units that the platform is owned by the HOA not the unit owner.

Given now that the HOA has acted in a fashion that indicates the platforms are HOA owned and the second issue is noted I wish to reopen this issue to get the Unit owner to comply and only have a satellite dish installation that meets the requirements of our CC&R's and/or FCC requirements. Also to repair the damage to the HOA property they caused.

In one month I will be joining the Board along with two other new HOA members. My question is can the new Board now go back to the Unit owner in question and request them to remove the satellite dish from HOA owned property, repair the damage to HOA property where they drilled into walls, and if they wish they can reinstall a satellite dish in a manner that follows FCC law and any requirements of our CC&R's?

Other notes to help in reply

The dishes, they have two, are larger than one meter in diameter

How do we allow the owner to bring the cable into the unit if they can't drill a hole into the wall so as to delivery the cable to the inside? All exterior walls are owned by the HOA
From the FCC: "For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling." http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

How do we address issue as the unit owner has only has one exclusive use patio as the entire roof is HOA owned and thus can't install on the roof? The patio does not provide a line of site and would require a mast that would not only be unsightly would require it to be over the roof line to get proper signal.

Thanks

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

Your Architectural Control Committee, or a contractor hired by the Association, needs to make recommendations to the Board as to the proper methods for installing satellite systems that minimize the risk of water intrusion into the "waterproof membrane" of the buildings. It may require installing conduit running on the outside of the buildings down to the ground, and then through the footer into the building, or some other code-acceptable approach.

Rob

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

David,

Your posting indicated that the member you are talking about had permission when he installed the dish. You indicated that prior Boards also believed the dish to be proper. Therefore, the Board you are elected to should not revisit the issue.

If your Association does not have a guideline regarding satellite dishes, then your Board should do as Rob indicated and adopt guidelines for the future and grandfathering the past.

However, if the Board does chose to make this member move their satellite dish, I would strongly suggest that you see how other members of your Association handled the mounting of their satellite dishes, as the Board would have to enforce the rule on everyone in violation, or be guilty of selective enforcement. Since over a year has passed, I would also strongly suggest that you confer with your Associations attorney for an interpretation in the covenants and if the Association should go after an individual who, in good faith, installed the dish with the Associations approval but the Board may have misinterpreted the covenants.

Tim

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

TimB4

Need clarification on my part. Never indicated unit owner had permission in fact they did not have permission to install dish. They just went ahead and did the installation as indicated. Thus owner did not act in good faith when installing the dish or drilling a hole into HOA owned property. When I complained, as a owner, to the Board they would not act on it as indicated. My only option then became legal and I felt that was not an appropriate path at the time as there was bigger issues at hand.

No other homeowners have installed dishes on our property.

Our CC&R's and it indicates can't install on HOA owned property but no mention of drilling holes specifically into HOA property but this is pretty clear cut as property drilled into is not owned by the unit owner and thus unit owner had no standing to alter property. At the time the HOA interpretation was that the platform was not HOA owned property but exclusive use property which they now have reversed on in regards to the actual ownership of the platform by performing repairs on my platform because they reread the CC&R's and came to conclusion it was actually HOA owned property.

You are right about consulting an attorney but wanted to find out if we have grounds to revisit and fix damage to property caused by unit owner even if it was done a couple years ago.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

If the offending owner had written approval from the HOA, you can't "unapprove" the modification. Documents always prohibit unauthorized modifications to the Common Area but they often allow modifications to the Common Area if authorized by the Board.

If the offending owner only had verbal approval, you can fine him and force him to take down the modification. First, verbal approval doesn't really exist: the majority of the Board would have to vote in an official Board meeting and the approval motion would be in the minutes. Second, if an individual Board Member gave him an approval, that's worthless: individual Board Members don't have the right to approve/disapprove Common Area modifications. Third, failure of the previous Board to enforce the rule isn't binding on new Boards. Boards are duty-bound to enforce the rules so the previous Board's failure to enforce is their failure and a new Board is not required to perpetuate the failure.

Now, to conform to the FCC, this may mean that the offending owner can erect a giant mast from his balcony. But that's a different issue entirely.

You are doing the right thing by figuring out a strategy to allow people to get satellite dishes in a consistent and acceptable way.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

If it was NOT approved by the board and violates the ARC or Convenants then the structure can be removed at OWNER's cost. If the owner refuse to remove the offense then the HOA can remove it themselves and send the owner the bill. If the owner refuses to pay that bill then the HOA can LIEN the owner for that bill amount plus legal filing fees.

This goes for any structures that are in violation such like satellites or fences etc. The owner could request a meeting with the board for formal approval or modification. That way a compromise can be reached and recorded.

Unfornately, satellite dishes fall under advancing technology. This means about 25 years ago when MOST HOA documents were written they were referring to those old HUGE satellite dishes that were eye sores. Now a days a satellite dish is barely noticeable or viewable. However, the rules still exists. This is one of those updates/modifications HOA shoud review and update in their documentation every few years.

Former HOA President

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Thanks for replies

HOA never verbally or in writing granted the Homeowner right to install anywhere on property. Unit owner never asked verbally or in writing to perform install - as always for this unit they just did it. (We have a run with land legal document filed against them and subequently signed when they installed a new bathroom and ran a pipe through Association owned property - just getting to how this unit works)

As indicated when I found out I verbally asked for it to be addressed in HOA meetings but NO HOA meetings were held - a whole other subject - and my verbal request for remediation were ignored.

Now we have 2 new owners and myself going on the Board and we want to clean-up the mess left by the previous board including this issue.

MelissaP1 - I like your idea - a letter to them about the improperly installed two S-dishes with request to remove, right to meeting, cost billed to them if HOA has to remove and right to install properly under CC&R and FCC guidelines.

But still need to figure where they can put a mast that is not unsightly and how to run cable line into house without affecting common area owned property.

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

David

Could you describe the building in a bit greater detail? From your original post it appears that it is a multiple Unit building. Are you Condominiums?

Is the building wired for Cable TV?

Is the Satellite TV service through one of the two major providers? I am asking because you said that the dish is larger than one meter. And you mention two (2) Satellite Dishes? Do they service two different Units or apartments, or just one Unit?

If just for one Unit, two dishes are not longer needed - at least in my area. There is a "new design" Dish that is now being installed.

I know very little about Satellite TV, except that we just allowed, gave permission for a Dish Antenna to be mounted near the roof peak of a four Unit Building.

And we were told that, that single Dish can be used to provide Satellite service to all four Condo Units in the building should the residents so desire.

Currently we have two Condo Units in that building hooked up and we were able to keep "holes through the siding" to a minimum because the building is already wired for Cable TV.

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

EllieD

Two unit building - townhomes with Condo style subterranean parking.
Building one has 6 attached townhomes
Unit two has 2 attached townhomes
Thus, no one above or below each unit

Each unit except one has a single enclosed court yard and is considered exclusive use area. All other components/area of complex are owned by HOA.

Building is wired for Cable TV with each unit responsible for securing subscription to services. No master cable provider to complex as a whole

Satellite TV: Unknown who they get their service from. The two dishes service one unit. Why they have two I'm not sure. They are Armenian and are probably recieving broadcasting to fit their viewing habits where possibly the major provider is not providing. I would put an over/under wager that the second dish, the larger one, is receiving illegal broadcast.

One Sattelite dish is installed on the shared A/C platform as previously described. The second one is installed on the APEX of the roof structure which is shared between units. Definately HOA owned and also part of another unit. Definately can request this to be removed ASAP as completely illegal.

As indicated my concerns are:

1) how to allow them to legally have service, within the confines of FCC law, without causing a viewing mess
2) How does the cable get run into unit with it be run through a HOA owned wall as the entire exterior of the unit is owned by the HOA.
Someone made a mess and put a bubble type patch around the hole they created when they ran the original cable through the HOA owned wall (the type from an aeresol can)

Thanks,

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446

Posted:

David,

I have only a layman’s understanding, but if your buildings are pre-wired for Cable TV anything like ours, the Satellite Dish installer should be able to find a junction point some place outside where the Cable TV enters and is split with a wire going to each individual Condo Unit within that building.

As I understand it, at that “Cable TV junction point” outside, the Cable TV “feed in wire” for the specific Condo Unit that wants Satellite is disconnected, and then the Satellite “feed in wire” is then connected to where the Cable TV lead in wire was.

The Satellite signal now uses the wiring that is already in place for the Cable TV, and there is no need to drill any “new holes” to get the signal into the Unit. It simply uses what is already installed for Cable TV.

We just went through correcting a “hole in the siding Dish installation” made by an Owner who did not ask, by utilizing an outside “junction point”. thereby eliminating the "hole".

As to allowing only what the FCC says has to be allowed – we initially did try to go that route. That was a few years back. We now look at it differently.

Even though we do not have to – we now allow a Dish to be mounted near the roof peak, but not on the roof itself, on a Common portion of the building owned by the Association, above where the “junction box is”, so as to allow the wire from the Dish to be neatly run down the building into the existing outside “junction box”.

Then it is just – switch wiring in the “junction box” – and the Satellite Dish feed is now active to the particular Condo Unit desiring Satellite TV.

For us, allowing the Dish to be mounted on the Common Peak Area of the building, allows for a neat installation, whereas trying to allow only what we had to, per the FCC, did not work out as well esthetically speaking.

But to “make things work”, we allow installation only through our Local Authorized Dealer. We have it “set up” with them so that only one Dish is needed per building to service all the Condo Units in that Building (however each Unit owner is still able to have their own plan).

So while we would prefer no Dishes – we decided one (1) Dish per building on a Common Area owned by the Association, is better than multiple Dishes on Limited Common exclusive areas.

Hopefully you have one of the major Satellite providers with an authorized Dealer in your area, with an actual storefront, employing installers that work directly for the Local Dealer, that you can consult with.

We had our Local Authorized Dealer “come out” and “look over” our buildings and determine the best spot to mount a single Dish for each of our buildings.

In your case, your Local Dealer could probably tell you “why the two antennas” and even who was providing the Satellite service, and how to re-route.

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Coming back in on this subject

EllieD the junction box is owned by Time Warner Cable and I don't think they would take very kindly us connecting to their junction box.

We have a new owner requesting a satellite dish and I re-read the FCC requirements and we are tyring to figure out to grant or deny installation request.

The entire perimeter of all units is owned by the HOA and we do not allow drilling into the exterior walls of our complex. The roof is HOA owned, the rear of property does not have site capability and is also HOA owned, the unit owner has a exlusive use but HOA owned common area patio in front of unit that faces the entire HOA open common area, the only access into the unit from the patio is through a HOA owned wall or through a hole in the front door. Not going to happen.

I'm thinking since we do not allow drilling through HOA owned wall we are not bound by the FCC and thus can deny installation.

Comments?

Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?
A: The rule applies to antenna users who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, if the antenna user has an exclusive use area in which to install the antenna. "Exclusive use" means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. For example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas. The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule. For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

David,

I would suggest that the Association come up with provisions allowing the dishes to be installed on the roof. Otherwise, you cannot deny the owner from installing the dish on his exclusive use area. Granted, he might need to run the cable through a window.

I'm thinking the Association would be happier designating an area that the dishes can be mounted on the roof vs. having each owner keep a dish on the balcony in the front of the building.

Tim

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

[Wearing my Architectural Control and former California president of the association hats]

I agree with Tim on this. On the one hand, the HOA has an obligation to protect the property, but on the other, it shouldn't act to deny a homeowner access to information and/or communications, just because allowing that access presents some challenges to the HOA - even if you can find an out in the wording from the FCC. Strictly my opinion, of course.

That said, the HOA itself can facilitate dish installation, while at the same time maintaining the integrity of the waterproof membranes of the buildings. The HOA should take control of the situation, and look for infrastructure-wide solutions that will accommodate everyone, and that can be written into the architectural policy and/or rules and regulations.

One example of this would be to hire a contractor to wire all of the buildings properly, and either supply community dishes that the units are all wired to, or at least run the cables from the roofs down into the units, terminating in proper outlets, so all wiring that a homeowner would need to have control over is interior, only. It might require a special assessment, but that's what we did in my complex. We waited until we re-sided the buildings, and that facilitated the cabling.

Another thing we did was to contract with a satellite service company, who provided, installed and maintains dishes on all of the roofs, for free.

Rob

DavidA7 (California)
Posts: 179

Posted:

All well said - thank you

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