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JosephineK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
We are having a difficulty with our management company's monthly reports. The monthly reports are showing BOTH the budgeted monthly transfers to the reserve accounts as an expense AND the actual reserve fund expenditures as an expense to the operating account. In other words, if our budget is $100,000, of which $20,000 goes to the reserve fund every year, and we spend $20,000 from the reserve fund, the management company is showing both, e.g. $40,000, as an expense for the year, so we are always showing a significant operating loss.

At first, I thought this was only a mistake with our association, but our manager says this is how they report it for all their properties. It seems as if our own management company doesn't understand basic association accounting principles. Any suggestions?

To make it clearer, if this were the first year of the association with a budget of $100,000 and we took in $100,000, spent $80,000 on maintenance, and $20,000 went to the reserve fund, and then $20,000 of the reserve fund was spent, the management company would show a $20,000 "loss" for the year, as if we spent $120,000.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
I would think that there would be two account reports presented, plus a balance sheet showing the entire picture of the financials of the HOA.

1) Annual budget expenses and 20 Reserve Fund Account.

The "transfer" of $20K into the Reserve Fund would be shown under expenditure because it is coming out of the general revenues.

That same $20K would be shown as revenue coming in to the Reserve Fund. Then that fund would spend whatever has been approved.

so - on what report do you see a $120,000 expenditure?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Josephine:

Are they using double entry accounting system? If so then the debits and credits should equal each other. Here is some info and at the bottom are some examples for you to reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-entry_bookkeeping_system

JosephineK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
No, I don't believe they are using double-entry accounting. It's a small management firm and the accounting department just sets up excel spreadsheets.

It is the "Unexpended Budget Report" that reflects the purported "losses" when, in fact, we are actually pretty much on budget.

I'll give you another example of why I don't think they're using double-entry bookkeeping. We have much of our reserve funds in CDs. I kept noticing that we were way under-budget on interest income. Granted, nobody is getting much in interest these days, but I knew we were getting more than 24 cents for 2010!! The interest was reflected on our bank statements. Turns out that, although the interest was there, it had not been credited as interest income on the reports from the management company, to the tune of over $2,000!! It's not that the management company is taking any money -- it's just not getting reported to the Board in the monthly reports. If the management company were doing double-entry bookkeeping, then this wouldn't happen.

We switched management companies in 2009 to a smaller, locally-owned company. The service has been great -- no problems. But I think they are woefully ignorant on many accounting issues. Presumably the auditors will check and correct things when they audit the 2010 books, but at every Board meeting I, as Treasurer end up having to tell the other board members that, although the management company reports say we're $20,000 in the hole, we are actually doing fine.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
If your a non-profit corporation then whatever you bring in has to be spent out. You can have a possible small reserve fund but it should be less than 10% of the overall budget. Otherwise it is subject to federal taxes. Which pretty much cancels out any of that interest income.

A 20K reserve fund is pretty healthy amount to have in reserves. I suspect your accountant is doing the right thing by claiming it as a loss to save from paying federal taxes. This is a GOOD thing.

It sounds like they have reported the 100K coming in as income and 100K going out as expenditures making it EQUAL. Which is what a Non-profit is to do. However, your 20K in reserves could be considered a profit. That would be subject to taxes and the interest earned on it. What the accounting people did is they ROLLED the money back into the budget. The HOA then spent that money on expenditures. That now means that 20K would show up BOTH as a loss and expenditure.

Your HOA does sound healthy but should keep an eye on it's reserves. You can have too much reserves. Which is a double - edge sword at the end of the tax year.

Former HOA President
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/14/2011 1:02 PM
If your a non-profit corporation then whatever you bring in has to be spent out. You can have a possible small reserve fund but it should be less than 10% of the overall budget. Otherwise it is subject to federal taxes. Which pretty much cancels out any of that interest income.

A 20K reserve fund is pretty healthy amount to have in reserves. I suspect your accountant is doing the right thing by claiming it as a loss to save from paying federal taxes. This is a GOOD thing.

It sounds like they have reported the 100K coming in as income and 100K going out as expenditures making it EQUAL. Which is what a Non-profit is to do. However, your 20K in reserves could be considered a profit. That would be subject to taxes and the interest earned on it. What the accounting people did is they ROLLED the money back into the budget. The HOA then spent that money on expenditures. That now means that 20K would show up BOTH as a loss and expenditure.

Your HOA does sound healthy but should keep an eye on it's reserves. You can have too much reserves. Which is a double - edge sword at the end of the tax year.

Sadly, Melissa you're out on a limb here contributing to confusion because your statements are not correct.

Contributions to a reserve fund are properly determined by the results of a reserve study. Your 10% of the overall budget figure has no basis except a "guess" - it is determined by how much responsibility the association has for maintenance and replacement within the community.

As for taxes - contributions to reserve funds are not taxable - only the interest that a standing reserve fund will earn.

It IS true that operating budget "profits" can jeopardize a non-profit's tax situation, but contributions to reserve funds don't influence that unless they cannot be justified by reserve needs analysis.

As an example, our comparatively small (103 home) HOA has a very large (will grow to almost a million dollars) reserve fund accruing because we have substantial reserve needs over time (we own the roads and they need to be resurfaced, we are responsible for replacing the roofs on all homes, etc.)

Reserves are NOT profits as you suggest.
JosephineK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Thank you for correcting Melissa, and I apologize for any confusion that resulted from my using figures that were designed for an example only.

We have, of course, proper reserve studies and analyses performed. The amount of the reserve balance is not in issue, nor is the amount budgeted every year that goes into the reserve funds an issue. There is no money "missing".

Melissa, the amount that any association budgets to go into the Reserve fund is a legitimate expense every year under IRS rules (assuming that the reserve analysis is supported). But we cannot "expense" something twice -- the IRS would frown upon that -- and that is what the management reports are showing.
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Josephine - you're quite correct about the error of this "double" expensing.

Given that process, it will be impossible to generate a correct Balance Sheet at any point in time after such expensing takes place. The error will show up in the equity portion of the Balance Sheet for the given financial year.
JosephineK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I'm not so much worried about the balance sheet (which will get corrected by the auditors) as I am about getting the management company to recognize what it is they are doing wrong and reporting results correctly. Other than the accounting issues -- and there have been others that I have caught and they have corrected -- I really like them, they are conscientious, attentive, etc.
DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482
Posted:
I have serious doubts about how many management companies and accounting firms do accounting.

The goal of accounting is to clearly portray to homeowners (the audience) how money flowed through the HOA.

If homeowners don't understand it or are misled, the accounting failed to do its job.

But many accounting firms and management companies say, "Well, that's the way that we've always done it" or "We hired Sue CPA and she said do it this way" or "I don't understand it either but, when I put the numbers into the Excel spreadsheet or Quickbooks or Blah Blah accounting application, this is what it did." Yes, but maybe you set it up wrong or misunderstood Sue CPA or Quickbooks is misconfigured.

I can't say what's up in your particular case but I wouldn't be surprised if it was just a routine mistake/failure that had been calcified by years and years of uncritical thinking.
JosephineK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Excellent observation about the "that's the way we've always done it" response. I think that's exactly what I'm up against. I have offered to come in and explain the problem to everyone -- including the owners of the company -- at once. I am not a CPA, but I do have a degree in accounting, and have served on HOA boards for over 20 years. Wish me luck!
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Josephine - the reason I brought the Balance Sheet issue into question is that it is one way to demonstrate to the management company the error of their ways. Presumably, they produce both a P&L (at some frequency, usually monthly) and a Balance Sheet for your HOA (also at some frequency which could be quite variable). But Balance Sheets are a snapshot at any point in time and the process of trying to construct one will exposé the flaw in their process. That's the only reason I brought it up - as a teaching tool.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I apologize for my mistake. Thank you for correcting me. That's what you get on 3 hour sleep...

Former HOA President
JohnO6 (Georgia)
Posts: 424
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 02/14/2011 2:21 PM
I apologize for my mistake. Thank you for correcting me. That's what you get on 3 hour sleep...

No problem! We all do it every once in a while.

3 hours sleep?

That's what you get for replying to so many posts on this forum
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Working third shift and can't sleep...LOL! Frustrated homeowners make me want to pull the covers over my head and go to bed... LOL

Former HOA President

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