Proper Intro and HOA Question

Hello, my name is chris. I just joined this forum and looked for a place to introduce myself but didnt find a section for that. I am looking for some answers and dont know where to turn. I have dont some internet searching reguarding the subject matter in question only to find very little info.....so i will ask your opinions....

I live in a neighborhood with an HOA. The HOA didnt exist when we purchased our house. Since the HOA has been formed the dues have grown to be exorbitant(very high, about $1250/yr w/o special assessment.) Our neighborhood is gated and the homes range from $200,000-$400,000. There is another gated community in our large neighborhood with multi million dollar homes and their HOA dues are $750/yr. Talking to the HOA manager is useless as expected....been there...done that.

In the last several months i have notice abusive use of HOA funds. My wife and I are so tired of all of this. We dont ont to get involved in any kind of litigation BUT I Would like know how i could have them thoroughly AUDITED by an unbiased entity that maybe has the power to bring them to justice once all these abuses are uncovered.

All comments are apprciated.

Chris:

As suggested this is not something you can do from a distance.

I don't know of any state agency that will act on your stated opinions or hunches and open and investigation.

My first comment would be $1200 per year equals $100 per month not what I would consider high.

As to your comparison with the other property the common charges would hopefully reflect the services needed to maintain your property and then cover those essential costs. As you don't know or haven't provided any information regarding your property's budget or the budget of the other property it would be difficult for you and impossible for us to comment on the seeming realtionship between the amount you pay and the owners of those expensive homes.

On its face one MIGHT think since their homes are higher priced it should be more expensive to live there that just might not be the case.

There may be a state agency in your state with whomkj you might file a complaint or request they look into the operation of your property. My guess they would require more details and evidence than you have provided here.

Do you attend the property's meeting? Have they provided you with documents detailing the financials? Is there a Board in place? Do you know any of the members?

My first suggestion educate yourself as to the property's finances. Learn who makes the decisions on the property and why?
If you have no details request the profit/loss report, the budget, the audit if one has been done. Under most documents they should be made available to you if you make a request.

Attend your property's Board meetings if they are held and find out why if they are not.

As you did not provide details as to what you consider misuse of the property's funds it is diffcult to judge the degree of the problem you might be having.

If you would like please provide some more details so we might get a better feel for what you are up against.

I would like to ask what amount do you believe would be reasonable to service the needs of your property to be paid by each owner per year?

Do you have a community pool?
Community property?
Is there landscaping involved?
How many units are located on your property?
Garbage removal?
Insurance?
MC fees?
Snow removal?
Water/sewer costs?
Taxes?
Roads to maintain?

These all would need to be known and the cost for each to determine if the CCs are in line or not.

Hope this might help. Good luck.

One thing to keep in mind when attempting to compare Association fees is that fees can be kept low artificially, due to politics. The Association with the lower fees may actually be doing a disservice to the homeowners by not raising them, if it means that the common area reserves aren't adequately funded.

Where Associations can get into trouble is when they are new, or recently renovated. The homeowners may think (erroneously) that because everything's new and shiny, there is no need to significantly fund the reserves. Alternatively, some Associations make up for low (or even no) reserve funding by doing special assessments.

In your case, any homeowner has the right to see the books, or to get copies of the financial statements (usually at your own cost). Dig deep, and dig hard.

Rob

You say no, but you said its a gated community...... I presume the gate costs lots of money and is community property. I find it hard to believe they don't have insurance. Even directors insurance. You need to get a copy of your budget from the HOA.

Yes, the flowers thing is dumb.

yes we have a gate....i actually thought you were talking about a common area like with park benches/playground/bbq grill..etc. all those things like insurance, taxes etc. if we pay them im sure all other HOA do to. Other HOA dues are not as high as ours. These idiots running our HOA planted those trees i spoke of earlier in the july heat and they all died because they had no water source.....THE FLOWERS...LOL....that is a red flag there is misuse going on and then they have the nerve to rub it in our faces. I have owned several businesses in my life and i have no doubt if i started looking though the records i could find many areas where they are running HOA like a government instead of a business. what i mean is they run out of money on purpose so they justify asking for more.

If my replies seem a little heated...i apologize and i do really appreciate your reponses......i came here for answers and im glad u r give info and point of view.

Hi Chris:

Per your comment ... "The HOA didnt exist when we purchased our house."

Why was an HOA formed? You and everyone else had to agree for this to happen.

Chris,

In order for us to help you efficiently, it would help us (and you) if you familiarize yourself with all of the governing documents that define your HOA. What you seem to be doing is expressing anger and frustration, and that's OK, but in this situation, knowledge is power.

Rob

How can this person say that the HOA didn't exist when he moved in? Even if it was under declarent/builder, he still should have known that he was in a gated community and there would someday be a homeowner-run HOA.

I think the clue here is that he asks if he can opt out - i.e. he's having difficulty making house payments and blames the HOA dues for his problems.

Sorry you think we are uppity HOA members but atleast we understand where we stand and what an HOA is. Your just a monday morning quarterback assigning fraud to everything your HOA spends money on.

If the majority of members VOTE they want to paint the roads Red they can and it isn't fraud or a crime. As long as they have the funds to do it and the homeowner's want it then you get red roads.

So far I am kind of liking your HOA from the sounds of it. They wanted to give flowers to a HOA member who experienced a loss. They planted shrubery or trees for some kind of benefit YOU didn't care enough to find out the reason behind before complaining. They donated funds to a charitable cause. You only pay $1200 a year!!!

It just sounds like your a dog chasing it's tail but don't know why. If you don't get involved in your HOA and just keep assigning it's responsibilities in your mind then you will NEVER be satisfied. Enjoy your dissatisfaction...

I can see no reason to justify your HOA donating to an organization or why your board would approve that.
You might try getting budget and expense reports if you don't already have them and make a list of things that you consider to be fraud or misuse of funds and start asking your neighbors what they think. It sounds like you live in quite a large community so others will have to get involved and get rid of the BOD and property manager.
I still think the flowers are inappropriate use of funds but that isn't uncommon. Our association does that from time to time and I always get out voted on that issue.
There must have been a reason for the trees.You are legally entitled to see the board meeting minutes when they approved that and when they aproved the donations. I suggest you ask for them.
Asking for all records all at once will probably not be a good idea.

Oh where to begin......

So we have someone who according to them bought a home and somehow afterwards and HOA slipped in in the middle of the night without them knowing. I have never really heard of that but lets say it happened. My guess even in Texas that would not be something put together on the back of a napkin over a few beers one Friday night. Probably would require being put to the property owners and maybe even a vote. And then someone must have voted for it! Where was this homeowner when this occured? Missed those meetings? I would guess folks that send flowers and welcome new owners well tough to imagine they were able to sneak this one by everyone. But it COULD happen.

Then lets just touch briefly on the flowers. The most serious of offenses by this HOA Board. Now since the OP has no idea how many units exist I'm going to guess, on a 3,000 acre property.....hmmm... Now for the sake of this dicussion lets keep it simple I say there are 100 units. I have to guess because at this point from the information provided by the OP my guess would be as good as theirs. So we have 100 units. Now lets go hog wild and say we dropped $100 for the funeral arrangement for are deceased neighbor. Well that comes to $1 per household. Now if the OP would like us to believe this is grounds for some investigation after which folks need to face "justice" as he suggests, well they must be pretty strict down there in Texas.

Your property is being put into financial ruin by the $1 expense to each property owner. Seriously? That's what you have? And someone is expected to act on this?

But the OP with this damning information is seeking an audit to reveal the HOA's crimes and fraud. Seems the HOA is pretty forthcoming in their actions which suugests to me they have nothing to hide.

And when it has been suggested that perhaps this OP attend HOA meetings to educate himself and perhaps get explanations well he has no desire to "waste his time" even though the meetings are held "OFTEN" just seems his travel plans always conflict. If MY property were facing numerous foreclosures and I was underwater on MY property's mortgage and I had suspicions
the HOA was acting in an improper manner call me crazy but I woud find the time to show up. Just how concerned are you really?

My question even after the explanation as to the Europe trip what about the month before, the month after? Just not that interested rather come to this site and tell strangers who can do nothing and offer no real details because that effort seems to be just to much.

My property contacts new owners to welcome them to the property with a letter from the Board and a $25 gift certificate as a simple gesture of welcoming them to the property. So far none of us has seen jail time.

Seems in this case no need to welcome people or offer condolences upon their deaths. That $1 could reduce the common charges for the rest of us.

And IF you find this sort of behavior questionable do something don't just sit there and find fault and assign blame based on so little information you lack any credibility.

I asked the OP if his property had any MC costs. That would cover management costs but his response they hired a managing agen not a company so therefore there was no MC costs. Guess they manage the property for free. Maybe if we cut all services we could then discontinue the collection of any CCs.

My guess the OP bought into something he did not understand. Or failed to pay attention to what was happening. Now the property like many has suffered with foreclosures and a drop in real estate prices. So in order to place blame you find issues with flowers and trees and suggest THIS is the cause for your property's issues. And you determined this based on nothing. And you sit back and do nothing because you travel alot.

My guess the HOA Board was voted in. My guess with the information provided they don't really try to hide their actions. They send out flyers! They even told the OP. Seems pretty upfront. My guess at least some of the property owners don't have issues with their actions.

I reside in NY on a one bedroom condo the CCs are close to $200 per month. The OP pays about 1/2 of that. Or $3 per day. My question which he failed to answer just what amount would seem reasonable to him? $50 per month $25 or perhaps $0. Seems unrealistic to me.

But when you have no insurance costs, no MC costs, no common property ( why then were they planting trees? were they planting on owner's property and paying the cost?)no accounting fees, no legal fees, no taxes, no utility expenses, and no need for a reserve fund of any kind sure don't need that $3 per day.

Maybe they are spending all that money on flowers alone.............. Since there doesn't seem to be any other expenses on this property.

I come here to offer explanations or suggestions to those who might benefit from some of the things I may have learned. This OP comes with accusations about flowers and trees, a strong dislike for HOAs when he lives in one, lacking the most basic understanding of his own HOAs operation but somehow is able to find fault, assign fault and justify his total and complete lack of involvment.

And then when you offer some explanation or advice he is unwilling to consider it.

That's quite a feat...............................

JON, well arent you quite the author, nice work. YES $50/mo seems reasonable. Is there someplace id rather be than a HOA meeting....ABSOLUTELY. Do i expect you to fully understand the full scope of my plight..NO. Had i rather see the flowers go to you instead of someone in this neighborhood....YES(but only cuz your speacial). DID i answer some of the questions earlier unknowingly wrong....YES. ARe you gonna have me cast into eternal condemnation because im human....I HOPE NOT.

"offFFF with Chris's head, NOW offfFFF to the neighbors"...surely you not this kind of guy jon but sure seems like it.

give me a break. If throwing stones at me makes you feel good...take your best shot. after all i did say that i know i ran the risk of some undersirable comments.

JON THIS IS FOR YOU..."shall it not be misconstrued that i do not disapprove, thank you"

Now that i have been beheaded and nearly stoned to death, im gonna re attach my head and pull my body parts together...i will tell you even though you obviously think i dont know much about HOA's.....YOU ABSOLUTELY RIGHT...i already admitted that.....

I have done enough online research to know that everything i have found has to do with reports of fraud by HOA's....what else did i find out....that if i quit paying they will attach a lien and sell the house. Which seems like the perfect way out....Except.....it would greatly affect my wifes career....so ya see its a catch 22.

Chris,

Can you explain how you became a member of your HOA? We're all having problems grasping it, since in our collective experience, membership requires a signed agreement. Did you just start getting bills for membership fees?

Rob

ROB to make it clear....we were grandfathered in.....never paid any dues until all that happened.

Jon...how is it working for me? fantastic...thanks to rob i will be looking FOR paper work to show thAT we signed to agree to enter into an HOA...im gonna have the HOA produce that for me(if they can). So far you've done nothing but talk SMACK....CAN U GIVE SOME USEFUL INFO....IF NOT THE BUTT OUT. I would not come to your thread and talk JUNK.

IF u think im lying go online and look. there is not exactly an abundance of people praising HOA's.

"THANK YOU SIR, MAY I HAVE ANOTHER"

Hi Chris:

Texas State Statutes can be found here: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

From what I have been reviewing there should have been a petition procedure followed regarding creating restrictions and an HOA.

TITLE 11. RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS

Sec. 201.006. PETITION PROCEDURE.
(a) A petition may be circulated, signed, acknowledged, and filed by or on behalf of owners at any time during the circulating committee's existence. The petition must conform to the requirements of Section 201.007.
(b) The petition may be filed not later than one year after the date on which the notice required by Section 201.005(a) is filed. The petition must be signed and acknowledged by owners who own, in the aggregate:
(1) a majority of the total number of lots in the subdivision, in order to extend, renew, or create restrictions;
(2) a majority of the total number of separately owned parcels, tracts, or building sites in the subdivision, whether or not the parcels, tracts, or building sites contain part or all of one or more platted lots or combinations of lots, in order to extend, renew, or create restrictions;
(3) a majority of the square footage within all of the lots in the subdivision, excluding any area dedicated or used exclusively for roadways or public purposes or by utilities, in order to extend, renew, or create restrictions;

Sec. 201.007. CONTENTS OF PETITION. (a) A petition filed under this chapter must contain or be supplemented by one or more instruments containing:
(5) if a restriction is being created, the text of the proposed instrument creating the restriction;
(6) original acknowledged signatures of the required number of owners as provided by Section 201.006;
(7) alternate boxes, clearly identified in a conspicuous manner next to the place for signing the petition, that enable each record owner to mark the appropriate box to show the exercise of the owner's option of either including or excluding the owner's property from being burdened by the restrictions being extended, created, added to, or modified;
(8) a statement that owners who do not sign the petition must file suit under Section 201.010 before the 181st day after the date on which the certificate called for by Section 201.008(e) is filed in order to challenge the procedures followed in extending, creating, adding to, or modifying a restriction; and
(9) a statement that owners who do not sign the petition may delete their property from the operation of the extended, created, added to, or modified restriction by filing a statement described in the fourth listed category in Section 201.009(b) before one year after the date on which the owner receives actual notice of the filing of the petition authorized by this chapter.
(c) Each petition filed under this chapter must contain an assertion from the signing owners that they own record title to property within the subdivision, and the legal description and street address of the property of each signing owner must be shown beside or above the signature. If there is more than one record owner of a tract, each record owner must sign the petition before the property can be counted as a part of the number required by Section 201.006.

Now you know why I was asking when all this took place as there are potentially certain deadlines.

Hmmm ... interesting not sure how the frown emoticon ended up in the above post. It certainly was not in the text.

On the frown emoticon: Could have been a typo that the CSS for this site interpreted as HTML?

Let's try a test:

:-(



Rob

Did I read that right? He believes that an HOA is committing fraud because if you don't pay your dues they can place a lien on your property? I don't get it... How is that fraud? Sounds like good sound business practices to me...

I thought the frowny face was kinda cute.....lol....no worries.....i am gonna request that info with our signatures. I asked my wife if she remembered signing anything like that and she said no. I dont recall either. thats the first place im starting. A SPECIAL THANKS those of you who are genuine and trying to help.

JON and MElISSA....GO TO YOUR LOCAL AIRPORT..im buying you both a one way ticket to EGYPT. IF u think im gonna lay down while u "doodoo" all over me...YOUR WRONG...NOW, come back at me with more SMACK and thats what u will get back.

How you going to buy me a ticket? You don't even want to pay your HOA any money...

As for helping you out there's absolutely no way to do that. Your convinced everything is fraud and illegal. If it is so then hire you a lawyer or call the police. Otherwise your just another HOA member who thinks they have the "answer to everything" without knowing the question...

You are mixing apples with oranges. HOA isn't foreclosing on the properties in your neighborhood the MORTGAGE companies are. IF the HOA was foreclosing it would require a whole lot more money to do so and would be a lose lose situation.

Is your HOA still Developer/builder controlled? Or is it Homeowner controlled? I bet you don't even know that. You can't even tell the difference between where the HOA responsibilities end and city laws apply. Ads being placed on your mailboxes and such is NOT a HOA responsibility. The best they can do is post a sign (Which costs HOA funds) at the entrance saying "No Solitician". That is ALL they can't enforce it except calling the POLICE. Then your out of luck there too.

I sure hope you don't pay those dues at this point. I would love to read your post about how you got liened by your HOA and how unfair and fruaudalent that is. All I have to say if you didn't pay your fair share of your "Free lunch" I'd feed you some doo-doo you can't get out of.

Really at this point your are just sounding like the HOA nightmare member ALL of us have had enough dealing with. We no longer would want to listen to you either because your just unreasonable and uneducated of anything regarding your HOA. Really you need to provide some REAL fraud proof because all I see is a HOA doing it's job.

" IF it WOULDNT affect my wifes career, we would walk out and let Bank of America RAILROAD that HOA."

Donna, i copied and pasted the above statement to answer your question except i HIGHLIGHTED if and wouldnt so you would not miss it.

You don't even know that Bank of America couldn't or even wouldn't "railroad" a HOA. They would railroad YOU and NOT touch the HOA. They aren't responsible for the HOA dues or rules. The only effect it has with Bank of America is to factor in your dues when approving your loan. They have to consider HOA as an additional debt like credit cards or utilities.
Even IF they foreclose against you they won't care about the HOA as they are SECONDARY to them getting paid. The Bank ALWAYS gets paid FIRST and then debtors such as HOA's IF they have a lien on the property. Once the bank takes over a foreclosure they will pay the HOA dues until the property is sold. Although they are NOT timely in paying those dues in alot of cases. Either way the bank would have no responsibility to the HOA.

You really need do need some help...Stop looking at the forrest for the trees...

Shawna, thank you for the sincere and helpful reply....i feel your pain and i will look into your suggestion and Thanks to the others that have commented on a sincere note...

As for the others, I want u to know that i know that u know that i know that I jumped right into a shark tank FULL of HOA managers here on this forum, but i have acquired some good info so it was all worth it. I would almost be certain that there are probably LOTS OF PEOPLE on this forum that would love to have some help but are too afraid to ask because they might get their HEADS CHEWED OFF.

FOR THE NICE PEOPLE, stop by this thread tommorrow....we are having cookies, ice cream and refreshments. I asked my HOA if they would help with cost but said NO....but they aid they would love to send a beautiful flower arrangement.