Fines for rule violation

Started by SusanK5 • 9 replies • 2192 views

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SusanK5 (Utah)
Posts: 30

Posted:

As a board we revised our rules to cover two items that are a zero tolerance and people are fined on the first violation. We have just been informed that we have to warn the violators. So the two items that were zero tolerance are
Pool violation, food at the pool, swim diapers, letting in anyone who shows up at the gate.
Renting out your unit. We require that owners request permission to rent, and when that is done they need to have a business license(city ordinance), lease and copy of the initialed rules so we now that their tenants are aware of our rules. We also want contact information.

So here is part of the dilema...what constitutes a warning? If the pool is posted with all the rules shouldn't they have to read these postings and shouldn't this be their warning? On the renting of their units, we are at 30% rentals and for property values and loan issues we don't want it to go higher than that. So if they rent their condo and we send a warning and they already have tenants how is that corrected? Do they have them move or do they just do the paperwork and make our rental percentage higher?

Any help would be appreciated.

DanielH1 (California)
Posts: 482

Posted:

If a document (or law) says that you need to warn violators, it will usually give you some idea what a warning consists of.

At my HOA, warnings are not required. A violator does have to be notified of the violation and given a chance for a hearing but they can be fined for the first offense. So that's different than a separate "free pass" warning.

If people are doing on-going violations like renting, they should be given 2 weeks to fix it. It would be ridiculous to have to wait until tenant feels like moving out.

Still, it is hard to say. Without knowing what document or law requires you to provide a warning, it is hard to say what the warning should consist of.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I have a HUGE issue about fines in a HOA. After reading your post it's clear why. Admittedly the Zero tolerance policy your HOA has voted on is going to put it up for some serious lawsuits. Plus it violates rights of homeowners.

HOA's are ONLY funded by the money from it's members. It operates much like a "Kitty" in a poker game. Everyone puts in to play and then raises or loses their bets. Conider Dues/Special assements as the money put into "Play". That money is subject to liens/foreclosures. Late fees are a condition/terms based on punitive damage of NOT paying dues timely. Those can also be INCLUDED in a lien/foreclosure as amount owed.

However, when it comes to fines they are more like "Icing on the cake" and can NOT be used as a basis for a lien/foreclosure. Most states do NOT allow a HOA to lien/foreclose on fines owed. Scenerio being a member is up to date on their dues BUT has 1K in fines. A HOA can't lien them for that 1K in fines.

Fines have to be written into the documentation that they are charged for violations and how much. The board can't randomly decide amongst itself what rules they want to fine on. If you do NOT have it in your CC&R's/By-laws fines are part of the deal your HOA can be subject to lawsuits.

I consider fines like "speeding tickets". The city is NOT funded by how many speeding tickets they hand out but by the taxes we pay. Speeding ticket money is just a way to enforce laws but not how to fund.

I can't even begin to get into the issue of fining people for renting their property. Unless the HOA OWNS those homes they have no right to restrict renting. A mortgage company is the only one I know that can limit that.

Former HOA President

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Susan at least for the pool violations, I would consider instead of fines, automatic suspension of pool privileges until a hearing before the Board. For the rental violations I would send them a letter giving them 15 days to either comply or request a hearing before the Board.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

AnnD2 (Connecticut)
Posts: 76

Posted:

I think that one of the major problems most HOA boards run into is that they act in a way that is emotionally detached from the rest of the community. While there may be good and even legal reasons for many decisions they make, if the community isn't behind them, then you will spend your lives trying to force people to comply. Most people react with resistance when they fill they are being strong-armed or threatened into doing something.

So, my advice is for your board to hold some meetings, publish a newsletter and do some serious PR work to try to build awareness over these problems and a consensus among your residents on how these issues should be handled. This not only gives people an opportunity to express their views, but often times new ideas and better solutions can be found when a broader perspective is taken into account. Granted this takes more time than just issuing fines, but in the long run it will save time and energy, not to mention potential legal expense.

Finally, when people feel they have been heard and dealt with fairly and when they feel that the rules are fair and applicable to everyone, you are more likely to gain compliance and assistance from others. Fines rarely result in actual compliance and only fuel more conflict and rebellious conduct.

Good luck.

SusanK5 (Utah)
Posts: 30

Posted:

Thanks for all the responses. I want to just add a few comments..I moved to a condo community for many reasons..downsizing, having my snow removed and grass taken care of, amenities etc. I understood that there were CC&Rs to follow and community rules. My take on the rules is that it makes the community nicer for everyone. It is disgusting to go for a walk and have every corner covered in dog waste because people don't want to clean up after their pets. It is also very disgusting to go to the pool and find food of all kinds mashed into the deck or floating in the pool or just the garbage from someones McDonalds meal being thrown into the bushes. It is disheartening to not be able to make our clubhouse nicer because no one will take care of the things that are already there. I don't understand it and I don't have much sympathy for people who have no regard for anyone else. As far as renting goes..I do believe that people should be able to do what they want with their own property, however, what about when the percentage of rentals is so high that a loan cannot be obtained? The property values will drop then because no one will be able to sell. I have been on the HOA Board here for many years and almost without exception it is the rental units that don't follow the rules..they are short term and don't have a vested interest in our community and having it stay nice. They want to rent here because it is a beautiful community and the condos are spacious but as far as participating in anything going on here they don't do that. In all fairness I can see issues with fines. In response to the person who is totally against fines...do you have any other suggestions? I am willing to listen to any ideas with this. In response to the person who thinks we should try to get the residents more involved I agree..this is what we already do..we have a website that we post information on. We send a monthly newsletter. We have monthly meetings with the first half hour for any homeowner who has an issue to discuss or present. We have an email address for them to communicate with and my phone number is published so if people have a problem they can just call me. Here is what we get, 3 board members for 178 units. In the whole year maybe 3 to 4 people come to the board meetings. When people say they didn't know about something we tell them it was in the newsletter and find out they haven't read it. I personally have asked people to serve on the board and they want to be paid for it. 99% of the people in here do believe that "The HOA" is an entity and have no idea how it works and when I ask them to volunteer I never hear from them again. Okay, so now I am open to your comments...any and all.

AnnD2 (Connecticut)
Posts: 76

Posted:

I think a lot of HOA's suffer from the fact that years ago people belonged to civic organizations and learned how to conduct a meeting, how to resolve disputes and how to move the entire group forward. Nowadays we live in a time when this sort of "training" isn't available and many people have no idea that all our levels of government require involvement, work and time.

HOA are sold as ideal living environments in which people can have the financial benefits and don't need to take on the responsiblities of that ownership. Of course, that isn't the case. If anything goes wrong, the the first to make a fuss and to demand their issues are addressed pronto are often those who contribute the least to the running of the HOA.

From what you have said, you have done all that you can to inform and to try to involve people in the decision-making process. If they don't want to act like adults and to participate, then the Board is left with little option, but to treat them like children and to take charge....Fine away!

Some of the issues you raised about the pool I should think are public health matters and you might be able to get some help from your Dept of Public Health. Swimming in sewage from babies is enough to turn my stomach and keep me out of all pools....There also is public humiliation as leverage. You could install security cameras and run the images of the offenders on your community website. You might like to do that in any case, if you are going to issue fines.

I'd have your management company call the offenders and tell them that they have been observed in violation of rule # whatever and if they do it again they will be fined and a photo will be made public along with public notice of this fine. Good luck.

AnnD2 (Connecticut)
Posts: 76

Posted:

P.S. One thing I would add to my previous statement. Be absolutely certain you are following the law and your bylaws in the manner by which your rules have been created and are administered. In too many instances Board just issue rules without regard to the legal process they are supposed to follow to make those rules. Often times input from and even approval by the entire community is required before a rule can be put on your books. Board have a tendency to ignore that sort of detail in the name of expediency....If you don't follow the correct process and you try to enforce rules that haven't been created properly, there can be serious blow-back on the Board and the entire association.

For example, it is law in CT that rules cannot be arbitrary or capricious and that they must be reasonable. In my personal experience that would create serious legal problems for my board. Check your state statutes and your bylaws....

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Very nice post Ann … I could not agree with you more.

I believe the HOA’s that have the least issues are probably those who have volunteers that have worked with non-profit or civic organizations. Because they have worked with these organizations they have a better understanding of “team effort” towards a common goal or objective. They understand that obtaining involvement from the community regarding rules and regulations insures a feeling of overall fairness, and as you stated will gain better compliance.

Susan … the only thing that comes to mind that may be the best deterrent would be to install security cameras. 1. This could be a CYA for any future liability issue that could arise and, 2. Many individuals are less likely to not follow rules if they know they are on camera, so it should possibly reduce the problems. Good luck!!!

LoriH4 (Florida)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Our documents and bylaws have basic rules of conduct towards persons and property but there is no mention of fines. I think in the past years most people responded to verbal warnings by the BOD but new generations with more problems. I am assuming we can add to the bylaws monetary enforcements to those who continually aggrevate the community members and/or property. Florida statues help with information to do this but responders on here seem to have more clarity to proceed. So do we add the process of fines to the declarations or by laws? I do not know why I can't seem to process declarations, bylaws, rules, policy. My thinking is the declarations are the condo was set up to operate, the bylaws set up the in depth process of how to operate the community, and I am not sure where "rule" fit in, usually policy refers to the how to of a rule but why do we need bylaws, rules, and policy? Are rules just an easier way to let community know what is expected of them in addition to the bylaws and keeps the change and addition to bylaw process to a minimum. So many questions hopefully some answers. My main objective is setting up a process to proceed from written warnings to monetary backup.

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