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SharonS10 (Virginia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
We have a situation that has come across my desk in which I am unsure of the extent to which HOA can enforce our decisions.
Homeowners submitted an Exterior Alteration for a fence in their back and side yard. The homeowners included descriptions, samples,
illustrations and attached a plat of their property highlighting where the fence would be placed. We (HOA) approved their application
and the homeowners installed the fence as they had decribed on their exterior alteration application.

Upon inspection of their fence it was discovered that it was not 15 feet from the front line of their house, which is a violation
of the standards. However we approve their alteration anyway, failing to note this when presented with their application - which we
approved.

The homeowners have given us legal reasons as to why they aren't required to make the fixes, which will be expensive to them, because
they claim "the doctorine of promissory estoppel" and that they acted in good faith upon our approval. They appear to have legal counsel.
They claim the fence was installed to the specifications they outlined in the approved exterior alteration request.
They claim the HOA can't be estopped from recinding it's approval at this point.

What do other HOA communities believe to be the right way to go in this matter? There are many issues to consider here.

Thank you,
Sharon
KcW (Florida)
Posts: 14
Posted:
IMO, if I sat on a jury, the HOA would be out of luck. You guys approved the plans, and if changes to the plans needed to be made, it should have been done BEFORE the fence went up.

Personally, I feel the HOA should let this go or be prepared to spend big bucks in a court case that you will probably loose. Or , if you really feel the changes need to be made, tell the HO that the HOA will pay for those changes.

These homeowners that did all their homework and provided you guys with all the stuff needed to make an informed decision, probably would have made the changes BEFORE the fence went up, and might not have cost a thing. But now that you guys have said ā€œOh I am sorry, we made a mistake, we shouldn’t have approved your fenceā€ well shame on you guys, and this mistake will make for a good election once every one hears about the big boo boo that was made.

Another way to go at this… Go ahead a demanded that the HO change the fence and make sure you keep us updated on the lawsuit, how much your HOA is spending on this, and how your neighbors have treated you since this because now your spending all your money on a stupid lawsuit and not on your pool or common area. This should make for good reading…
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Sharon,

The association should take it as a lesson learned. Do your homework before granting approval or disapproval and visit the site.

Had an Association representative visited the site during construction, it would have been a different story. However, since the fence is already up and was approved by the Association the Board effectively gave a waiver for the fence.

My suggestions would be that the Association contact the homeowner, in writing, acknowledging that the Association did give approval. However, since the fence is outside the specifications of the guidelines that when the fence is in need of replacement it must be brought into the standards that exist at the time. Run it by your lawyer for proper wording.

SINCE YOU LIVE IN VA, you will need to make sure that your Architectural committee does it job in mentioning the waiver issue when the house is sold. Otherwise, per VA law - you just approved the fence forever for failure to disclose it.

Tim
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
If the violation is just one of a "standard" (Assn. created) and not of a covenant then change the standard or issue a variance, lesson learned, move on.

If it is a violation of a covenant then the BOD has no authority to approve the fence/application request regardless of any defects which may be in the application.

If the violation involves city, county, or state bldg. codes, setbacks, etc. then the fence would be forced to comply with them.
SharonS10 (Virginia)
Posts: 2
Posted:
"BOD has no authority to approve the fence/application request regardless of any defects which may be in the application"

This is true. However if the Board did approve it and the HO went ahead and installed the fence- whose financial
responsiblity would it be to pay for the necessary changes?

It was my understanding that the BOD is not required to notify the HO if their request has violations of a covenant or code
when the application comes in. The HO should know the covenants and codes.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:

"It was my understanding that the BOD is not required to notify the HO if their request has violations of a covenant..."

ABSOLUTELY, in the form of a rejection!

The BOD or ARC comm. should be aware of it's own standards and covenants.

Additionally, project commencement should not be allowed until required permits are obtained. This would filter out any local gvmt. codes, etc.

The point was that if the request is beyond the jurisdiction of the BOD (against CCRs) then the HO would not likely be protected by the promisory estoppel as the BOD has no authority to issue a promise.

If it was just that of a "standard" then the BOD would have jurisdiction to waiver and would more likely be responsible.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SharonS10 on 01/31/2011 5:59 AM
"
However if the Board did approve it and the HO went ahead and installed the fence- whose financial
responsibility would it be to pay for the necessary changes?

Sharon,

In my opinion, since the Association approved the fence, I believe that the Association should have the financial responsibility of correcting it if they insist on it being changed.

Realistically, that would be a question that would have to be settled in a court of law and it could go either way.

Quote:
Posted By SharonS10 on 01/31/2011 5:59 AM
"
It was my understanding that the BOD is not required to notify the HO if their request has violations of a covenant or code when the application comes in. The HO should know the covenants and codes.

I agree that the BOD should not comment on any city codes. This is the responsibility of the city who is the approving authority for building plans. The BOD/Association is the approving authority for building plans as it relates to their covenants.

Just as a city official takes the time to review submitted plans and ensure that they comply to local codes prior to issuing a building permit, an Association should take the time to review submitted plans and ensure that they comply to the covenants and guidelines prior to giving it's approval.

Any homeowner, individual or (whats the legal term, oh yeah)reasonable person would expect that once receiving approval from the approving authority that the submitted plans complied with the codes/covenants otherwise they would not have received approval.

Bottom line, The Association is at fault for approving plans they should not have approved. Yes the homeowner should have known the guidelines. Perhaps they did and a simple mistake happened when the plans were drawn up. That doesn't negate the fact that the Association also failed to catch the mistake. Even if the failure of catching the mistake was a mistake in and of itself.

The Associations mistake (one could use the word negligence) caused the owner damages if they were forced to remove the fence and make it comply with the guidelines/covenants. Therefore, the member would have a legal right to seek recovery of the damages. If this happens it would be the courts decision as to how much blame should be placed on each party for their mistake. However, if it ever gets that far, it won't matter who is at blame because the only winners will be the lawyers.

Tim
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
I'm the Architectural Control Committee chair for my HOA. It is my job to review/recommend action on HO alterations to common area.

If I recommend to the BOD to approve an alteration, and the HO follows the submitted plan to the letter, then the alteration stands - even if it violates a standard in our rules & regulations or CC&Rs. If it turns out that the alteration violates building or planning codes, then the correction is on the HO's head.

I'm only saying how it would be handled in my community, but in this particular situation (i.e., the alteration was done exactly as described, and - apparently - no building codes were violated - then everyone performed in good faith, and the fence would remain. I, as Architectural Control Committee chair, would - of course - fall on my sword, apologize to everyone, and recommend that the BOD grant an official waiver for this particular fence. Here, that's well within the authority of the BOD, and it isolates this particular variance to one particular unit.

Your mileage may vary.

Rob
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
"If I recommend to the BOD to approve an alteration, and the HO follows the submitted plan to the letter, then the alteration stands - even if it violates a standard in our rules & regulations or CC&Rs..."

Fortunately in my community neither the BOD or any committee has the authority to waiver the CC&Rs.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
How would that be fortunate, given the circumstances under discussion? What would happen in your community if the HOA approved a fence installation that later turned out to violate your rules or CC&Rs?

Rob
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
It is fortunate that three people (of a 5 mem. BOD) cannot change my community's covenants.

As far as the issue at discussion: the OP stated it violated standards, and if the HO is not cooperative, the BOD has to either live with it by [covering their tracks and] issuing a waver or variance so no future action(s) can be caused to occur with this violation... OR... if the BOD insists the fence be made compliant then the burden is on them and they will likely have to seek a court order (and bear all expenses) to do so.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
I think we may have a communication problem. Waiving a rule or restriction for one homeowner due to an honest mistake on the part of the HOA is not changing your community's covenants; it's making an exception for one homeowner out of a sense of fairness and practicality. But I agree with you that the homeowner could voluntarily choose to spend his/her own money to relocate the fence, the HOA could bite the bullet, admit their mistake, and pay for it, or maybe there's some compromise that would be palatable to both parties.

Rob
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
You said "...or CC&Rs" here:
"If I recommend to the BOD to approve an alteration, and the HO follows the submitted plan to the letter, then the alteration stands - even if it violates a standard in our rules & regulations or CC&Rs."

The CCRs (covenants, conditions, and restrictions) are registered with local govt. authorities and belong to the members in that only the members can grant "waivers" (i.e. ammend them).

Rules & Regs., Architectural Standards, etc. are typically created and thus controlled by the current BOD. In this case granting a waiver or variance is at thier pleasure (and would avoid any expenses BTW).
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
As I stated, I'm only talking about the Davis-Stirling Act, and how it pertains to HOAs in California.

The basis of my argument can be found here.

The interpretation as to whether a waiver is justified in any given circumstance is up to the BOD.

One thing I would caution people who live in Common Interest Developments about is that CC&Rs are subject to change. They can be amended by vote of the membership, or parts of them can become null and void due to changes in the laws in your state. When the law and CC&Rs or other governing documents conflict, the law trumps the documents. It's fairly common for Association documents to be out-of-date, and the homeowners may not even realize it. it's another reason why it's so important to have a sharp management firm and BOD who keep up with such changes, and update the governing documents accordingly.

Rob
ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Our documents allow any homeowner to enforce the CCR's if they wish. I wonder how that would play out if another homeowner pursued the fence? If successful, would the homeowner's with the fence still have a case against the HOA? I would assume yes.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
How would any homeowner enforce the CC&Rs? I'm not sure what you mean.

Rob

Quote:
Posted By ScottC on 02/04/2011 10:41 AM
Our documents allow any homeowner to enforce the CCR's if they wish. I wonder how that would play out if another homeowner pursued the fence? If successful, would the homeowner's with the fence still have a case against the HOA? I would assume yes.

ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobW on 02/04/2011 10:50 AM
How would any homeowner enforce the CC&Rs? I'm not sure what you mean.

Rob

Posted By ScottC on 02/04/2011 10:41 AM
Our documents allow any homeowner to enforce the CCR's if they wish. I wonder how that would play out if another homeowner pursued the fence? If successful, would the homeowner's with the fence still have a case against the HOA? I would assume yes.



The below is from our CCR's. I believe it gives any homeowner the ability to enforce the CCR's on their own if they wish. I also know that I have read case law where homeowners took on an issue themselves.

Violation or threatened violation of these covenants and restrictions shall be grounds for an action by the
Developer, Association, any person or entity have any right, title or interest in the real estate (or any part
thereof) and all persons or entities claiming under them against the person or entity violating or threatening
to violate any such covenants or restrictions. Available relief in any such action shall include recovery of
damages or other sums due for such violation, injunctive relief against any such violation or threatened
violation, declaratory relief and the recovery costs and attorneys' fees incurred by any party successfully
enforcing these covenants and restrictions, provided, however, that neither the Developer nor the
Association shall be liable for damages or any kind to any person for failing to enforce or carry out such
covenants and restrictions.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
hmmm...

It's not clear to me what that language is talking about. it almost sounds like boiler plate that was thrown in there when the document was first cobbled together. Your state civil code will trump your CC&Rs when it comes to the types of action homeowners can take, and under what circumstances.

If it were me, I think I'd consult an attorney specializing in HOA law in your state before I went very far down this particular avenue.

Rob
ScottC (Indiana)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Rob,
Our documents also contain the below language, which I think makes it clear that individual owners can pursue violations.

4. Remedies.
A. In General. Any party to whose benefit these Restrictions inure, including Developer, any
Owner, the Association, or any applicable governmental authority, may proceed at law or
in equity to prevent the occurrence or continuation of any violation of these Restrictions,
but Developer or the Association shall not be liable for damages of any kind to any
person for failing either to enforce or carry out any of these Restrictions.
HeatherB4 (Florida)
Posts: 51
Posted:
If a car is parked in the street and it is against the bylaws... a HO can have that persons car towed by calling a tow truck themselves. They dont need BOD to do that.

HOWEVER, it does say that if a HO wants to go ahead, without BOD, to fix something that is volating the bylaws, the HOA will not be held accountable.

So, if a neighbor goes on this guys property and takes down the fence, and he gets shot for doing that, the HOA can not get sued.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Heather:

You stated: If a car is parked in the street and it is against the bylaws... a HO can have that persons car towed by calling a tow truck themselves. They dont need BOD to do that.

Question: If it is a ā€œpublic streetā€ and the car is potentially owned by someone not living in your HOA, they are not legally obligated to follow the HOA rules. If a HO has it towed, they could potentially incur legal liability and a lawsuit.

Just a heads up that everyone needs to be sure and check their local ordinances. I recently asked my local government officials a question regarding this issue because surrounding HOA’s are having parking on street HOA rule violations. The city consensus is if the HOA does not own the streets, then towing a properly registered, legally parked vehicle on a public street is not an option. If they do own and maintain the streets, then the HOA rules would apply and as the owner of the private property the vehicle could be towed by the HOA.

They also stated if someone filed a lawsuit, that they could enter into any such lawsuit as the owners of the public property to protect the rights of the citizens regarding the City owned property. This issue could be dependant on how far a local government entity will go with regards to fighting.
RobW (California)
Posts: 279
Posted:
Regardless of how you interpret these passages in your CC&Rs , I would double and triple check that what you think it means is actually what it means. I'll give you an example: A homeowner in my community called a tow truck to have a vehicle towed out of a red zone. Our CC&Rs seemed to spell out that this was within his authority, and it was "common knowledge" that this was OK.

The visitor sued and won. Our HOA had to pay the towing fees, the storage fees, and some punitive damages. Turns out that somewhere along the line, the rules had changed, even though the CC&Rs didn't reflect the changes. The homeowners now only have the right to have vehicles towed out of the homeowner's deeded parking spaces.

Personally, I would resist the urge to get confrontational, and leave it to your HOA to deal with this stuff. Notice how if you "do it yourself," you aren't protected? The HOA washes its hands of any responsibility, and that means that you aren't protected by the HOA insurance or legal representation, either.

It's as I always tell my clients who want us to add the latest and flashiest feature to their websites:

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should.

Just my 2 cents.

Rob

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