Effective Communication with the HOA BOD. Whats the best method in your opinions?

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

As you have read, I have some major concerns regarding our new gym the board has approved and erected. I had open communication with our property management company and the bod until I mentioned the issues with DSA violation that a fellow poster was so kind to give me.

I called our manager on Thursday. He said "I don't know, you have given us a fair question." I will get back to you asap. Never heard from him and now our HOA BOD is not responding to my emails.

Simple. no "elected" rule of not allowing homeownwers access to the new gym if they are behind ind ues. or fines. There is no due process and it's not in our ccrs.

Our gym is due to open Sunday am. I have asked 3 x since Wed for a copy of the new rules. My request has not been honored.. or responded to.

Suggestions? I need your excellent advice. Leave it alone? See what the rules say? I have contacted an local atty for advice. HOA ATTY. He feels from what I have given him there is a serious violation and the board, management company is not answering me as they are unsure themselves..

I dont' want to go the legal route.. I just want them to do what is right.. I am suspicious at this point.

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

Fiona,

It seems to me that you have some serious concerns with the way some members of your Board of Directors are performing their duties. Every homeowner should be as diligent as you are in paying attention to these things. However, because you are new, you don't yet have enough information or experience to accurately judge the full scope of any of these situations, and simply coming here to these forums to express your concerns, while beneficial in terms of brainstorming, is not the best solution. As an example: homeowners - especially new ones - often believe that Board members should be excellent communicators. There's no requirement for that in the list of qualifications for office. If you send an e-mail to a Board member, asking about a specific issue, the issue may be volatile, and it may be that the answer could take days, weeks or months to determine. Just because you haven't yet received a reply does not mean the Board is not actively working to arrive at the correct answer to your question.

One cautionary note about using our answers here in your dealings with your HOA: I just posted to a conversation you started about whether your HOA is required to provide handicapped accommodations to your gym. I just happen to be a long-term homeowner in a California CID (24 years) and the Architectural Control Committee Chair who has had to deal with this issue repeatedly. So, you got lucky this time, just because I happened to see your post. None of the other posters had the correct answer for you. Most people in these forums are well-meaning and just want to help, but the truth is that your HOA is not required by law to comply with the ADA. Suppose I hadn't posted the link to the Davis-Stirling Act that spells this out, and suppose also that no one else caught it. Would you have added this "confirmation" of a violation to your stockpile of ammunition to use in fighting with the BOD?

Do you get where I'm going with this?

If you really want to keep your community on track, go to the Board meetings. Ask questions. Volunteer to serve on a committee. Be persistent, and try to avoid developing an adversarial relationship with your fellow volunteers. The people serving on your Board are just like the people trying to help you on these forums - some are knowledgeable about some things, but not about others, and some may be serving for their own purposes - but the main difference is that they actually live where you live. They have the same amount at stake. They have all or most of the specific facts pertaining to your situation, while we here can speak only in general terms, or anecdotally.

In the end, it is your responsibility as a homeowner to dig for the truth in your own community until you find it. Only then, when you have all of the facts, can you draw any reasonable conclusions, and only then do you have the tools and leverage you need to get things moving in the right direction (assuming they aren't).

Sorry for the long-winded soapbox speech, but I guess I feel strongly about this.

Rob

HeatherB4 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Just trying to make sure I have all the facts…

1. From the way your previous post sounded, you are upset because your community just put in a great new gym and because you are not paying your dues the HOA does not want you to use it?

Whether or not your bylaws state anything about non-paying members is moot in an ethical argument. You want to use something that you did not pay for, while others in your community are made to “foot the bill” with increases to compensate for the fact that you will not pay a bill.

2. You want to make sure that everyone can use the gym, including those that are disabled

Fair enough, however it seems you are reaching for something in the hopes that they will “shut this down.” Because heck, if you can’t use the gym, nobody should be able to use it right?

3. Then you asked the property manager THURSDAY (BTW, It’s only Saturday while I post this, which means two days have passed.) About changes to a plan that would take a great amount of time and money to change.

You expect the your BOD, which has no obligation to speak to you outside of Member meetings and your manager, which has told you they will get back to you, to drop everything on a whim so they can accommodate a non-paying member. Frist of all, like me, they probably think you are reaching for anything so that other due paying members will not to be able to enjoy this new gym. Heck, if you can’t use the gym, nobody should be able to use it, right?

Also, have you considered the fact that it has only been two days? People work, and if your HOA is really wanting to do this right, they are spending their time right now with their attorney and accountant to figure out how to correct this mess. Also, another consideration, if you said anything in any of the conversations with the BOD and PM about your attorney, city code enforcement, DPPC, or anything that suggest a lawsuit or a civil action, I don’t blame them for not wanting to talk to you.

Here is my advice, for what it is worth…

Pay your HOA dues.

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

I do understand. It's just frustrating as you can imagine. I will take a stand back and take a look again at things, but honestly? I am familiar with the DSA site, it is just so lengthy that it would of taken me a long time to tackle the info I was seeking if indeed it existed. It's a site that is huge and the paper form resembles a small bible.. lol

I appreciate you input I really do. thank you for being supportive of me the novice. I enjoy reading the posts here anyway, whether I have a question or not.. it's very interesting and wealth of knowledge..

I also know I have seen incorrect info. But links to dsa and other governing entittes are indeed correct. ( depending on how it's interpreted though right?? _

Thanks again. I appreciate the soapy box.

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

BTW I am up to date on my dues..

I just found the whole scenario bizarre.

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

Fiona,

My opinions are no more or less valuable than those of anyone else here, but there are no opinion issues on whether or not an HOA is required to provide architectural accommodations to comply with the ADA. This is a clearly stated and defined issue in plain English, and I provided a link to it.

I really don't mean to be critical here, but these forums are not an alternative to educating yourself - they are just an auxiliary resource - a place to throw ideas out in hopes of getting some clues. The Davis-Stirling site is another resource that happens to be very well put-together, and easy to find information in. It took me less than 30 seconds to find the language that explains the situation.

I have real concerns that some people come here to get weapons and ammunition to use in personal crusades against volunteers in their communities, for personal reasons, and not necessarily for the good of their communities as a whole. I'm not saying you fit that description, but it's beginning to feel that way to me.

This is my opinion, for what it's worth:

In these forums, most of us live, or have lived, or are thinking about living in a common interest development. Virtually all of our communities are run by volunteers, and in most cases, those volunteers are people just like you, or Janet, or Heather, or Tim, or John, or me, who only want to live in a well-kept, beautiful community with lots of amenities that we might not otherwise be able to afford; and we're willing to pay a reasonable price for the privilege.

When you buy into a CID, you are buying the whole sack of goods. As my wife puts it, it's akin to getting married to someone you don't know, having to share the responsibilities, debts as well as the advantages, but without the love or sex that one might expect to come with that marriage.

It is easy to be a homeowner who thinks the BOD is a collection of self-serving, micro-managing, arbitrary and capricious busybodies with nothing better to do than to screw up your vision of how things ought to be - until you get elected! Then, suddenly, you find yourself faced with case after case of one group of homeowners wanting "A," another group wanting "B," and finding out, after weeks of tiresome debates and research, that you are forced by the law or by some other set of overpowering constraints to decide upon "C" - thus pissing both groups off equally.

Are there unethical or dishonest little dictators serving on Boards all over the US? Of course! And why? Because people who are honest, ethical, and willing to go the extra mile to do the job right are the very people who don't have time to serve. But if they don't make time, all of us get the kind of HOA we deserve.

My suggestion to you is to back off your crusade for a while, and spend the time getting to know your Board members. Invite them over for dinner, or take one out to lunch. Get involved, and study the documents and laws that you agreed to abide by when you "married" all of those strangers in your neighborhood. I know this isn't a sexy idea, and it's nowhere near as much fun as bombarding easy targets like your Board, but in the long run, you will be stronger, wiser, and -most importantly - the kind of leader your community needs - someone who can make the hard decisions, even if it means pissing people off.

Rob

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Marriage … LOL pretty good description. I’ll have to remember that one.

There might not be love, but need team effort. A united team insures prosperity; divided we all lose in some way.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Rob:

I would like to thank you for the breath of fresh air you have brought to this site with your comments on this subject.

I for one appreciate your clear, well thought out and rational opinions.

I had thought most people had lost the ability to use their common sense. I had thought many people had lost their ability to understand Board members are human too and when you question their motives, honesty, agenda, and morals what a shock they might not respond kindly.

When you walk into a room and tell people YOU suddenly have all the answers and they have failed you might not make many friends. I learned that in kindergarten.

Most recently I have seen a change in this site going from one of sharing ideas and expierence to becoming as you suggest a site to find ammunition to attack those that volunteer their time and make them the enemy.How do I fight the Board? Can I leave the HOA? How do I violate the rules and get away with it?

And those that reposnd don't bother to find out what the motivation or details of that particular siutation are.

How do we remove the Board because I don't like living under and HOA. My simple repsonse then why did you buy into one?

We have people who buy into a community fail to pay their CCs and then are offended when and how the HOA requests payment.
They don't like the tone............ So that gives them in their mind the option of not paying.....

We have people who buy into a property never understanding the HOA system of ownership and then decide they don't like it so we have to change the whole system to suit them. Thinking life is all about them.....

One woman could just not understand why she was not able to use HER ballots and proxies some of which were months old when pushing for a recall of the Board. Why did she have to use those provided by the Board afterall that would be to much effort.

We have people most recently who have a dog. Simple rule no pets. But now some weight limit should allow for "special" handling of their dog when all other don't recieve such consideration. Rules simply shouldn't apply to me.

And of course we have those that live to find fault with their Boards. They forget thses folks volunteer their time and are owners just like them. Not some separate group designed to make their life miserable. I often respond when asked by one of our resident busy bodies "why did you do that?" "Just to annoy the hell out of you."

We get people who have barely unpacked their belongings who suddenly discover they have dertermined the Board has no clue what they are doing. And as surprising as it may sound not all the members of the Board are on the edge of their seats waiting to hear and act on their pearls of wisdom. One comes to mind the "informational voting system" brought to this site by Mr. Judie (sp). He who joined his Board then after 7 months quit when not everyone saw things his way. Then we come to find out he had his own agenda badmouthing and finding fault with every HOA in America!

And of course one of my favorites. The lets change the by-laws to include term limits because I can't get enough votes to have a seat on the Board and "many" of the homeowners agree with me just not enough for me to win nor do I want to actually work at this. Yes, lets force those that volunteer their time OUT so you and your brilliant revelations can be put into full use. Those same revelations no one else supports. Ever heard of majority rules???? I hear that's how this country was set up to run. But that's a whole other discussion.

And then we have this particular post about the gym that has yet to open. Well we have folks quoting sites, federal law, and state law offering all kinds of opinions and beliefs (based on nothing) and holding them up as having some real value. What ever happened to keeping quiet when you don't know what you are talking about?

You know an empty barrel makes the most noise... And do we have some nosiy barrels on this site.

Lots of words, lots of posts lots of nothing...........

Providing sites that may or may not apply or providing sections of documents that may or may not apply is NOT constructive. But lets fire up the legal system and get a lawyer involved and maybe we can make this a lawsuit we can ALL pay for.

Do you even understand the law operates under rules and standards not under what you think should be.

I love the folks that comment...... "I look at it this way"...... That simply does not matter...

The woman in this matter suggests she is not on a crusade but has spoken to a lawyer. Sounds conflicted to me. The Board nor the MC can be versed on each and every legal ruling that may pertain to your property. They did their best to provide your property with gym equipment for the residents use. But now we need to involve the federal government, FHA and any other resource they may make this an issue we can pick at.

And if the Board does not respond to your e-mail within 2 day even when the gym has yet to open that requires MORE action.
As pointed out the Board does not live with the requirement it needs to respond to you or anyone directly within your timeframe.

How about looking for something positive? How about contacting the Board or MC just one time with something constructive? Is that even possible for some of you????? Have you ever once said Thank you?

And finally my favorite the Johnny come lately, the new member to this site, recently elected member to the Board or new property owner who magically knows all. Hasn't read the documents, and if they read them fails to understand them and then proceeds to make their own determinations based on nothing. I feel...... Many of my neighbors agree........ I don't think that should be....
I'm uncomfortable with....... This is not the way it should be...... I heard,,,, There have been many...... I would not allow that on my property....... sneaky, illegal, conflict of interest, criminal, lets thorw out all the words that might support our views when in fact they more than likely don't apply. And if and when they can find just one person in agreement then it becomes FACT.

And of course we have people here willing to agree with and support their baseless views.

I take my role as a member of my Board very seriously this has been my home for 25 years. I have served for nearly all of those years. And I find it annoying to say the least when we have people who come to this site and suddenly pass themselves off as experts with valuable knowledge when in reality their only acomplishment is adding to their own number of posts.

I might post every now and then when something comes up that I might have an opinion on or might have had to deal with. You can check my post total. I don't have the need to hear myself or prove to myself all that I think I know. Today we have people posting here on every topic just unable to skip an opportunity to have a say or cheerlead some effort to find fault and attack. Yes, of course the Board should do this and that or you can recall them just like I have never done.

Yes, as someone suggested perhaps you should consider paying your dues and being grateful someone is willing to oversee the operation of your most valuable asset to the best of their ability. Now what a strange an idea.....

In my life I have met many book smart people they read lots but had actually done nothing. They can find you all the documents and state regulations you want but don't bother to learn if they actually apply to the situation in question.
THey can throw out all the possibilities and might be's and maybe's and should be's and could be's you could ever want.

But those are useless

Then when you try to explain how the system works or in many cases human nature you are shut off because after 25 years what could you possibly know. When perhaps you yourself never sat a day on any Board.

It's always easy to sit on the outside looking in and finding and voicing what you think about how things should be but until such time as you have actually done this IMO your views are of little if any value.

This site is set up for community leaders I beleive are the words used. Those that make decisions each day in the operations and management of their properties. Not for wanna be, self proclaimed experts who each day prove they have little if any real understanding of this type of property ownership.

Again, to Rob and to others that share their knowledge and common sense I say thank you. Good to know we have some people left with the ability to see through all the noise..................

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 01/30/2011 8:23 AM
Rob:

I would like to thank you for the breath of fresh air you have brought to this site with your comments on this subject.

I for one appreciate your clear, well thought out and rational opinions.

I had thought most people had lost the ability to use their common sense. I had thought many people had lost their ability to understand Board members are human too and when you question their motives, honesty, agenda, and morals what a shock they might not respond kindly.

When you walk into a room and tell people YOU suddenly have all the answers and they have failed you might not make many friends. I learned that in kindergarten.

Most recently I have seen a change in this site going from one of sharing ideas and expierence to becoming as you suggest a site to find ammunition to attack those that volunteer their time and make them the enemy.How do I fight the Board? Can I leave the HOA? How do I violate the rules and get away with it?

And those that reposnd don't bother to find out what the motivation or details of that particular siutation are.

How do we remove the Board because I don't like living under and HOA. My simple repsonse then why did you buy into one?

We have people who buy into a community fail to pay their CCs and then are offended when and how the HOA requests payment.
They don't like the tone............ So that gives them in their mind the option of not paying.....

We have people who buy into a property never understanding the HOA system of ownership and then decide they don't like it so we have to change the whole system to suit them. Thinking life is all about them.....

One woman could just not understand why she was not able to use HER ballots and proxies some of which were months old when pushing for a recall of the Board. Why did she have to use those provided by the Board afterall that would be to much effort.

We have people most recently who have a dog. Simple rule no pets. But now some weight limit should allow for "special" handling of their dog when all other don't recieve such consideration. Rules simply shouldn't apply to me.

And of course we have those that live to find fault with their Boards. They forget thses folks volunteer their time and are owners just like them. Not some separate group designed to make their life miserable. I often respond when asked by one of our resident busy bodies "why did you do that?" "Just to annoy the hell out of you."

We get people who have barely unpacked their belongings who suddenly discover they have dertermined the Board has no clue what they are doing. And as surprising as it may sound not all the members of the Board are on the edge of their seats waiting to hear and act on their pearls of wisdom. One comes to mind the "informational voting system" brought to this site by Mr. Judie (sp). He who joined his Board then after 7 months quit when not everyone saw things his way. Then we come to find out he had his own agenda badmouthing and finding fault with every HOA in America!

And of course one of my favorites. The lets change the by-laws to include term limits because I can't get enough votes to have a seat on the Board and "many" of the homeowners agree with me just not enough for me to win nor do I want to actually work at this. Yes, lets force those that volunteer their time OUT so you and your brilliant revelations can be put into full use. Those same revelations no one else supports. Ever heard of majority rules???? I hear that's how this country was set up to run. But that's a whole other discussion.

And then we have this particular post about the gym that has yet to open. Well we have folks quoting sites, federal law, and state law offering all kinds of opinions and beliefs (based on nothing) and holding them up as having some real value. What ever happened to keeping quiet when you don't know what you are talking about?

You know an empty barrel makes the most noise... And do we have some nosiy barrels on this site.

Lots of words, lots of posts lots of nothing...........

Providing sites that may or may not apply or providing sections of documents that may or may not apply is NOT constructive. But lets fire up the legal system and get a lawyer involved and maybe we can make this a lawsuit we can ALL pay for.

Do you even understand the law operates under rules and standards not under what you think should be.

I love the folks that comment...... "I look at it this way"...... That simply does not matter...

The woman in this matter suggests she is not on a crusade but has spoken to a lawyer. Sounds conflicted to me. The Board nor the MC can be versed on each and every legal ruling that may pertain to your property. They did their best to provide your property with gym equipment for the residents use. But now we need to involve the federal government, FHA and any other resource they may make this an issue we can pick at.

And if the Board does not respond to your e-mail within 2 day even when the gym has yet to open that requires MORE action.
As pointed out the Board does not live with the requirement it needs to respond to you or anyone directly within your timeframe.

How about looking for something positive? How about contacting the Board or MC just one time with something constructive? Is that even possible for some of you????? Have you ever once said Thank you?

And finally my favorite the Johnny come lately, the new member to this site, recently elected member to the Board or new property owner who magically knows all. Hasn't read the documents, and if they read them fails to understand them and then proceeds to make their own determinations based on nothing. I feel...... Many of my neighbors agree........ I don't think that should be....
I'm uncomfortable with....... This is not the way it should be...... I heard,,,, There have been many...... I would not allow that on my property....... sneaky, illegal, conflict of interest, criminal, lets thorw out all the words that might support our views when in fact they more than likely don't apply. And if and when they can find just one person in agreement then it becomes FACT.

And of course we have people here willing to agree with and support their baseless views.

I take my role as a member of my Board very seriously this has been my home for 25 years. I have served for nearly all of those years. And I find it annoying to say the least when we have people who come to this site and suddenly pass themselves off as experts with valuable knowledge when in reality their only acomplishment is adding to their own number of posts.

I might post every now and then when something comes up that I might have an opinion on or might have had to deal with. You can check my post total. I don't have the need to hear myself or prove to myself all that I think I know. Today we have people posting here on every topic just unable to skip an opportunity to have a say or cheerlead some effort to find fault and attack. Yes, of course the Board should do this and that or you can recall them just like I have never done.

Yes, as someone suggested perhaps you should consider paying your dues and being grateful someone is willing to oversee the operation of your most valuable asset to the best of their ability. Now what a strange an idea.....

In my life I have met many book smart people they read lots but had actually done nothing. They can find you all the documents and state regulations you want but don't bother to learn if they actually apply to the situation in question.
THey can throw out all the possibilities and might be's and maybe's and should be's and could be's you could ever want.

But those are useless

Then when you try to explain how the system works or in many cases human nature you are shut off because after 25 years what could you possibly know. When perhaps you yourself never sat a day on any Board.

It's always easy to sit on the outside looking in and finding and voicing what you think about how things should be but until such time as you have actually done this IMO your views are of little if any value.

This site is set up for community leaders I beleive are the words used. Those that make decisions each day in the operations and management of their properties. Not for wanna be, self proclaimed experts who each day prove they have little if any real understanding of this type of property ownership.

Again, to Rob and to others that share their knowledge and common sense I say thank you. Good to know we have some people left with the ability to see through all the noise..................

Jon, you input although lengthy is certainly appreciated. I was honestly seeking answers, ideas. Yes, I have spoken to an atty. He is my great Uncle. So, please be assured I have spoken to an HOA atty, who is my family member, for support and presentation of an dilemma just like I did here. I know these sites are very easy to to jump into read a thread and jump to conclusions. My intent is good, I want to rectify a situation and bring it to legal honest standards. If I use an atty to that, does this make me a bad person? No, but it sure does assist with the process. However, if you feel this site is for community leaders, I apologize for monopolizing your time with my novice needs. I will seek professional advise elsewhere.

Hope you all have a good weekend.

Thank you again.

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 01/30/2011 8:23 AM
Rob:

I would like to thank you for the breath of fresh air you have brought to this site with your comments on this subject.

I for one appreciate your clear, well thought out and rational opinions.

I had thought most people had lost the ability to use their common sense. I had thought many people had lost their ability to understand Board members are human too and when you question their motives, honesty, agenda, and morals what a shock they might not respond kindly.

When you walk into a room and tell people YOU suddenly have all the answers and they have failed you might not make many friends. I learned that in kindergarten.

Most recently I have seen a change in this site going from one of sharing ideas and expierence to becoming as you suggest a site to find ammunition to attack those that volunteer their time and make them the enemy.How do I fight the Board? Can I leave the HOA? How do I violate the rules and get away with it?

And those that reposnd don't bother to find out what the motivation or details of that particular siutation are.

How do we remove the Board because I don't like living under and HOA. My simple repsonse then why did you buy into one?

We have people who buy into a community fail to pay their CCs and then are offended when and how the HOA requests payment.
They don't like the tone............ So that gives them in their mind the option of not paying.....

We have people who buy into a property never understanding the HOA system of ownership and then decide they don't like it so we have to change the whole system to suit them. Thinking life is all about them.....

One woman could just not understand why she was not able to use HER ballots and proxies some of which were months old when pushing for a recall of the Board. Why did she have to use those provided by the Board afterall that would be to much effort.

We have people most recently who have a dog. Simple rule no pets. But now some weight limit should allow for "special" handling of their dog when all other don't recieve such consideration. Rules simply shouldn't apply to me.

And of course we have those that live to find fault with their Boards. They forget thses folks volunteer their time and are owners just like them. Not some separate group designed to make their life miserable. I often respond when asked by one of our resident busy bodies "why did you do that?" "Just to annoy the hell out of you."

We get people who have barely unpacked their belongings who suddenly discover they have dertermined the Board has no clue what they are doing. And as surprising as it may sound not all the members of the Board are on the edge of their seats waiting to hear and act on their pearls of wisdom. One comes to mind the "informational voting system" brought to this site by Mr. Judie (sp). He who joined his Board then after 7 months quit when not everyone saw things his way. Then we come to find out he had his own agenda badmouthing and finding fault with every HOA in America!

And of course one of my favorites. The lets change the by-laws to include term limits because I can't get enough votes to have a seat on the Board and "many" of the homeowners agree with me just not enough for me to win nor do I want to actually work at this. Yes, lets force those that volunteer their time OUT so you and your brilliant revelations can be put into full use. Those same revelations no one else supports. Ever heard of majority rules???? I hear that's how this country was set up to run. But that's a whole other discussion.

And then we have this particular post about the gym that has yet to open. Well we have folks quoting sites, federal law, and state law offering all kinds of opinions and beliefs (based on nothing) and holding them up as having some real value. What ever happened to keeping quiet when you don't know what you are talking about?

You know an empty barrel makes the most noise... And do we have some nosiy barrels on this site.

Lots of words, lots of posts lots of nothing...........

Providing sites that may or may not apply or providing sections of documents that may or may not apply is NOT constructive. But lets fire up the legal system and get a lawyer involved and maybe we can make this a lawsuit we can ALL pay for.

Do you even understand the law operates under rules and standards not under what you think should be.

I love the folks that comment...... "I look at it this way"...... That simply does not matter...

The woman in this matter suggests she is not on a crusade but has spoken to a lawyer. Sounds conflicted to me. The Board nor the MC can be versed on each and every legal ruling that may pertain to your property. They did their best to provide your property with gym equipment for the residents use. But now we need to involve the federal government, FHA and any other resource they may make this an issue we can pick at.

And if the Board does not respond to your e-mail within 2 day even when the gym has yet to open that requires MORE action.
As pointed out the Board does not live with the requirement it needs to respond to you or anyone directly within your timeframe.

How about looking for something positive? How about contacting the Board or MC just one time with something constructive? Is that even possible for some of you????? Have you ever once said Thank you?

And finally my favorite the Johnny come lately, the new member to this site, recently elected member to the Board or new property owner who magically knows all. Hasn't read the documents, and if they read them fails to understand them and then proceeds to make their own determinations based on nothing. I feel...... Many of my neighbors agree........ I don't think that should be....
I'm uncomfortable with....... This is not the way it should be...... I heard,,,, There have been many...... I would not allow that on my property....... sneaky, illegal, conflict of interest, criminal, lets thorw out all the words that might support our views when in fact they more than likely don't apply. And if and when they can find just one person in agreement then it becomes FACT.

And of course we have people here willing to agree with and support their baseless views.

I take my role as a member of my Board very seriously this has been my home for 25 years. I have served for nearly all of those years. And I find it annoying to say the least when we have people who come to this site and suddenly pass themselves off as experts with valuable knowledge when in reality their only acomplishment is adding to their own number of posts.

I might post every now and then when something comes up that I might have an opinion on or might have had to deal with. You can check my post total. I don't have the need to hear myself or prove to myself all that I think I know. Today we have people posting here on every topic just unable to skip an opportunity to have a say or cheerlead some effort to find fault and attack. Yes, of course the Board should do this and that or you can recall them just like I have never done.

Yes, as someone suggested perhaps you should consider paying your dues and being grateful someone is willing to oversee the operation of your most valuable asset to the best of their ability. Now what a strange an idea.....

In my life I have met many book smart people they read lots but had actually done nothing. They can find you all the documents and state regulations you want but don't bother to learn if they actually apply to the situation in question.
THey can throw out all the possibilities and might be's and maybe's and should be's and could be's you could ever want.

But those are useless

Then when you try to explain how the system works or in many cases human nature you are shut off because after 25 years what could you possibly know. When perhaps you yourself never sat a day on any Board.

It's always easy to sit on the outside looking in and finding and voicing what you think about how things should be but until such time as you have actually done this IMO your views are of little if any value.

This site is set up for community leaders I beleive are the words used. Those that make decisions each day in the operations and management of their properties. Not for wanna be, self proclaimed experts who each day prove they have little if any real understanding of this type of property ownership.

Again, to Rob and to others that share their knowledge and common sense I say thank you. Good to know we have some people left with the ability to see through all the noise..................

Jon, you input although lengthy is certainly appreciated. I was honestly seeking answers, ideas. Yes, I have spoken to an atty. He is my great Uncle. So, please be assured I have spoken to an HOA atty, who is my family member, for support and presentation of an dilemma just like I did here. I know these sites are very easy to to jump into read a thread and jump to conclusions. My intent is good, I want to rectify a situation and bring it to legal honest standards. If I use an atty to that, does this make me a bad person? No, but it sure does assist with the process. However, if you feel this site is for community leaders, I apologize for monopolizing your time with my novice needs. I will seek professional advise elsewhere.

Hope you all have a good weekend.

Thank you again.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Fiona:

Sorry for the long post...........

In most cases when and if an attorney becomes involved or if a Board is contacted by an attorney then this would require another attorney to reply.

Then the meter starts running at your expense and that of your neighbor.

Some issues don't require they be taken to the federal level. Nor as I see it, is it YOUR repsosibility to see that this gym is up to code or regulations. But if that is how you plan to spend your day that is certainlky within your rights to do.

Asto your posting here I have no issue with that. I was merely pointing out that some who offer opinions base those same opinions on little other than what they themsleves have heard or seen on the web.

As a matter of fact I enjoyed your response to the young lady with the 4 lb dog issue. And I thought you covered that quite well. As most recently no one has seen fit to add anything to what you said. That tells me for many that issue is clsoed and answered. Quite a feat here on this site today.

So by all means keep posting.

At my age I try to approach many issues from the end to the beginning. IN this case what might happen when you persue this matter.

I will list a few possibilities:

The property might incurr additional legal fees responding to your questions or concerns.
The property might be required to change or improve the size or layout of the facility. More expense for you and your neighbors. If that is even possible.
The property might be required to remove some fo the equipment. Perhaps on piece of equipment to provide more open space.
The property might be required to close the facility completely.

Any of these options sound like a positive outcome?

To bring the room up to code or standards IF they actually exist.

I have learned in life to pick my battles. And fight those that actually need my efforts. And not to look for issues as a tool to keep busy. Perhaps tap your brakes before diving headfirst into an issue. Because in the end will this really matter?
Don't sweat the small stuff. It's better for you.

Good luck......................

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

You are very kind Jon I may of misunderstood your response, as this is easy to do. I as a homeowner and a 1/70th owner of that gym have some rights and pursue to make sure we are to code and help the board where I think our professional management has fallen really short!

Rationalization of rules has been done over and over in HOAs. ( in response to the young lady with the dog ) If you bend as a board you are at risk of being seen as "showing favoritism" no matter how small. It'a happened with me on our board. One member thought they could just willy nilly put up a bizarre fashioned bamboo looking partition thing on her patio. Our rules are very clear what is allowed and this was not. Her reason? I live alone, I need that up for my privacy... sure sure we let that one fly by.

Thanks again. F

SharonG4 (Mississippi)
Posts: 54

Posted:

I thought the whole purpose of this site was for individuals who were involved in community associations to share their ideas and learn from each other. I have had many questions dealing from a perspective as a board member of an HOA that was only recently turned over from developer control. As such, I certainly want the new board to give due diligence in dealing with the issues we face. I value the opinions I have received from others on this site, who have been doing this for years. Of course,I realize that these are their "opinions",and that I shouldn't take every comment as fact, but instead as a perspective that I may or may not have considered. So I don't mind the "I see it this way" or "maybe you should look at this site"...... I can read these and decide for myself if I also think there is value in seeing it that way or go to a site and read All of the documents and/or statues to see if they really apply to my issue, or find out that there are so many varied opinions that maybe it really is time for me to bite the bullet and incur the costs of consulting the HOA attorney for guidance. To me, this site is a learning tool, where I have access to many mentors!

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SharonG4 on 01/30/2011 11:14 AM
I thought the whole purpose of this site was for individuals who were involved in community associations to share their ideas and learn from each other. I have had many questions dealing from a perspective as a board member of an HOA that was only recently turned over from developer control. As such, I certainly want the new board to give due diligence in dealing with the issues we face. I value the opinions I have received from others on this site, who have been doing this for years. Of course,I realize that these are their "opinions",and that I shouldn't take every comment as fact, but instead as a perspective that I may or may not have considered. So I don't mind the "I see it this way" or "maybe you should look at this site"...... I can read these and decide for myself if I also think there is value in seeing it that way or go to a site and read All of the documents and/or statues to see if they really apply to my issue, or find out that there are so many varied opinions that maybe it really is time for me to bite the bullet and incur the costs of consulting the HOA attorney for guidance. To me, this site is a learning tool, where I have access to many mentors!

Sharon I couldn't agree more! I have been a board member, but for my own reasons and personal schedule, school work etc. After a number of years, had to leave. I have dome here a few times with questions, seeking advice and just sometimes support.n( that is recently ) It's a thankless job being BOD or even a outspoken homeowner sometimes. I am not a squeeky wheel, but if I know for fact ( and I mean that I have looked into something as much as I could, DSA site, atty, speaking to someone from the city ) is breaking the law, have not followed the due process I will speak up.

Otherwise, me turning my own head to the situation makes me part of the problem.

A little chuckle.. My original post that got me all concerned about this darn gym.. was an email from my HOA Pres that was sent out to the homeowners saying we couldn't use the gym if we were arrear in dues. Since I was on the board, and semi responsible for helping write the new ccr's I know what our old ( current ) docs say through and through. I knew we couldn't enforce a penalty on homeowners who are arrear in dues for a couple of reasons, it wasn't part of our governing docs at all, and in fact it was this site that gave me the actual DSA link that stated such. I provided that link to the board, and the committee that wrote our rules that included the behind in dues, no access rule. Guess what? New rules handed out today.... with the access code for all homeowners.. Homeonwers arrear in dues more than 3 months MAY risk losing access to the gym as determined by the HOA BOD and governing documents.

Thank Jon who gave me the link... its not fair for a board who is being supported and guided by a paid professional management company to make these kind of blatant errors. Our PM is involved with everything for beginning to end..and they obviously thought the board can on a whim, write rules prohibiting those behind on dues access to the new exercise room. Our pool, spa, clubhouse, and laundry do not have this prohibition in place..its not part of our ccrs, or bylaws.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 01/30/2011 8:23 AM

We get people who have barely unpacked their belongings who suddenly discover they have dertermined the Board has no clue what they are doing. And as surprising as it may sound not all the members of the Board are on the edge of their seats waiting to hear and act on their pearls of wisdom. One comes to mind the "informational voting system" brought to this site by Mr. Judie (sp). He who joined his Board then after 7 months quit when not everyone saw things his way. Then we come to find out he had his own agenda badmouthing and finding fault with every HOA in America!

Jon, that's nothing, about four or five years ago we had one poster that came up with a way to hold a special meeting to have the home owners vote to approve or disapprove every action of the BOD. He even posted a flow chart of how it would work.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

I've been struggling with sharing with you all what's been happening here in my community. It's the reason I sought this online forum out, because frankly, it has been overwhelming.

Fiona, I owe you an apology, and to any others that I may have been less than kind toward. It was not my intention to do anything but help.

I'm going to share a bit of the turmoil my family finds itself embroiled in, in hopes that it might help others.

Communication is everything.

We have a strong Eastern European community in our HOA. Many of these members came to America when the old USSR collapsed, and paid cash for their townhouses and condos. Prior to moving here, they had never owned any property, had never lived in a democracy, had never borrowed money from a bank. Very few of them can speak more than very basic English, and fewer still can read and comprehend it.

In addition, we have people from middle eastern, near eastern, eastern, South American and African nations who don't speak English at all.

All of our documents are in English.

Imagine explaining why we need to raise the monthly association fees in order to properly fund the reserves.

More later...

Rob

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobW on 01/31/2011 12:15 AM
I've been struggling with sharing with you all what's been happening here in my community. It's the reason I sought this online forum out, because frankly, it has been overwhelming.

Fiona, I owe you an apology, and to any others that I may have been less than kind toward. It was not my intention to do anything but help.

I'm going to share a bit of the turmoil my family finds itself embroiled in, in hopes that it might help others.

Communication is everything.

We have a strong Eastern European community in our HOA. Many of these members came to America when the old USSR collapsed, and paid cash for their townhouses and condos. Prior to moving here, they had never owned any property, had never lived in a democracy, had never borrowed money from a bank. Very few of them can speak more than very basic English, and fewer still can read and comprehend it.

In addition, we have people from middle eastern, near eastern, eastern, South American and African nations who don't speak English at all.

All of our documents are in English.

Imagine explaining why we need to raise the monthly association fees in order to properly fund the reserves.

More later...

Rob

One of my worst BOD nightmares was from a single mom who was a professional. She did every little rule infringement from leaving her trash outside her front door, to storing her stroller and an unapproved storage unit in her subterraine parking space.. ( all of which were clearly outlined in the basic docs. ) One day... we came home to a sight I will NEVER forget. She bought white plastic gardening lattice and literally inclosed her patio! He unit was right on the front street and it was an eye sore. Her reason? I have small dog and a child, the railings are unsafe. Response from the board? You are not exempt from the rules. Your project is an eyesore. Perhaps you should of read your basic docs before moving in? THat was sort of mean, but it got the point out there. After many months of constant letter. the young mom moved out due to loss of a job. To this day, our long time neighbors still talk about her. It's like who in the hell did she think she was? Amazing, but true. One renter felt our parking spaces were too small so he though it'd be appropriate use half of his fellow parking spaces..NO kidding. Try to rationalize that with a person of this thinking.. lol

RobW (California)
Posts: 279

Posted:

For many people, the hardest thing to grasp about common interest developments is that they are collectively-owned. It's very difficult, even for people who have the luxury of being fluent in English, to understand that when the buy a "unit," they aren't buying a home - at least not in the traditional sense of home ownership.

What is a "unit?" Well, if you're talking about a condo, which is the most common CID dwelling in California (followed in second place by townhouse), a unit is air. It's literally air space that is defined by the walls, floor and ceiling that enclose the air space. It would be accurate to state that when someone buys a condo, he or she is actually buying a specific volume of cubic feet of air, located on a plot of land described in a deed, and the right to decorate the air by applying cosmetic coverings to the walls, floors and ceilings that contain it.

They also buy the right to live in that air space - to bring in furniture, appliances, fixtures, personal possessions, food, drink - all of the trappings of civilized life. It's a lot like renting, in other words. As long as you pay the required number of dollars, and abide by the rules, you get to enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

This all comes as a shock to people like your young mom who only wanted to put up a little fence. Somehow, she never read all that stuff she signed before she moved in.

I live in a 177-unit community, owned equally by 177 interests. Each of us owns 1/177 of everything described in each of the 177 deeds. If your community is the similar to mine, the mom in your story decided, on her own, without consulting with anyone, or even reading the contract she signed with you and the rest of the property owners, to simply build a fence in your yard.

It's not the fence itself that's the problem, either. It's the fact that she violated the agreement she had with you.

Let's go back to the marriage analogy. One of my jobs in my household is to keep the kitchen clean. In exchange, my wife - who happens to love cooking absolutely marvelous meals - keeps me well-fed. What happens if I decide I don't feel like living up to my end of the agreement, and the sink is full of dirty dishes, and the pots and pans all need scrubbing? Well, she can't feed me - even if she wanted to (which she wouldn't). This is fair, isn't it? How many people reading this have any sympathy for me, if I complain that my wife is mistreating me by letting me go hungry? Raise your hands if you think I now have justification for not cleaning the kitchen, since - after all - my wife isn't feeding me.

Why, then, should we feel sympathy for the young mom who only wanted to protect her child and her dog? I don't. My CID has no playground - no swing set, no sliding board, no park for kids to play in. It never has. People with children shouldn't buy here - but they do. And then they attempt to change the marriage agreement by ignoring the terms of the pre-nup.It doesn't work, and it isn't fair.

Rob

FionaC (California)
Posts: 212

Posted:

Posted By RobW on 01/31/2011 9:57 AM
For many people, the hardest thing to grasp about common interest developments is that they are collectively-owned. It's very difficult, even for people who have the luxury of being fluent in English, to understand that when the buy a "unit," they aren't buying a home - at least not in the traditional sense of home ownership.

What is a "unit?" Well, if you're talking about a condo, which is the most common CID dwelling in California (followed in second place by townhouse), a unit is air. It's literally air space that is defined by the walls, floor and ceiling that enclose the air space. It would be accurate to state that when someone buys a condo, he or she is actually buying a specific volume of cubic feet of air, located on a plot of land described in a deed, and the right to decorate the air by applying cosmetic coverings to the walls, floors and ceilings that contain it.

They also buy the right to live in that air space - to bring in furniture, appliances, fixtures, personal possessions, food, drink - all of the trappings of civilized life. It's a lot like renting, in other words. As long as you pay the required number of dollars, and abide by the rules, you get to enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

This all comes as a shock to people like your young mom who only wanted to put up a little fence. Somehow, she never read all that stuff she signed before she moved in.

I live in a 177-unit community, owned equally by 177 interests. Each of us owns 1/177 of everything described in each of the 177 deeds. If your community is the similar to mine, the mom in your story decided, on her own, without consulting with anyone, or even reading the contract she signed with you and the rest of the property owners, to simply build a fence in your yard.

It's not the fence itself that's the problem, either. It's the fact that she violated the agreement she had with you.

Let's go back to the marriage analogy. One of my jobs in my household is to keep the kitchen clean. In exchange, my wife - who happens to love cooking absolutely marvelous meals - keeps me well-fed. What happens if I decide I don't feel like living up to my end of the agreement, and the sink is full of dirty dishes, and the pots and pans all need scrubbing? Well, she can't feed me - even if she wanted to (which she wouldn't). This is fair, isn't it? How many people reading this have any sympathy for me, if I complain that my wife is mistreating me by letting me go hungry? Raise your hands if you think I now have justification for not cleaning the kitchen, since - after all - my wife isn't feeding me.

Why, then, should we feel sympathy for the young mom who only wanted to protect her child and her dog? I don't. My CID has no playground - no swing set, no sliding board, no park for kids to play in. It never has. People with children shouldn't buy here - but they do. And then they attempt to change the marriage agreement by ignoring the terms of the pre-nup.It doesn't work, and it isn't fair.

Rob

I couldn't agree more. Our community for the most part is full of very level headed people. But this buidling is not set up for kids either. Nothing to play on, no common areas with green belts. One neighbor thought it was ok to let her kids ride their razor scooter on the third floor cat walk.. but that was stopped early on. I agree, Families with kids should not buy in communities like this unless... they are just starting out, and have plans to move out before the 5th bday.. lol