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ErikaR (Florida)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Two years ago the BOD proposed using one garbage collection service but failed to obtain the needed turnout of votes at our annual meeting to pass this. The now current president is proposing the BOD consider adding this item to the 2008 budget without a vote. Is this legal?
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Erika, it is not only legal but often desirable. There is barganing power for a group rate which lowers each owners cost for trash collection. Also, the HOA has better control over the vendor when the service is poor.

The budget needs to be approved by the Board and can be provided to all members with the annual meeting notice. At the annual meeting the members may chose to ratify or turndown the Board approved budget.
ErikaR (Florida)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thank you for the information. Two years ago it went to a member vote and failed to get the 2/3 approval. Now the BOD President is saying that isn't necessary and the BOD can simply vote it in. Sounds like you are saying that is true. Thank you for the feedback.
LuciusD
Posts: 139
Posted:
I consider imposing a single garbage service upon the memberships without member approval and assessing the cost to be overstepping the authority of the board and invading the private responsibility of the members. At least a majority of the membership should approve such a policy change.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
What is your present garbage collection situation now? And who is paying for it? If the percent increase to your assessment is more than your state or documents allow, it would certainly have to be approved by your members. Why was it necessary to seek approval from your members two years ago, but not now? Harold
ErikaR (Florida)
Posts: 19
Posted:
That is something we can't get an answer from the BOD about. The BOD has stated getting a 2/3 vote is not possible therefore the BOD will appoint a "special committee" to decide what is best for the community.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Erika, it is difficult to get 2/3 of all members to return a ballot even when a self addressed stamped envelop is enclosed. One approach could be to provide a mail-in ballot to all owners stating the association is considering including trash collection to be paid within the association budget. Advise on the amount of increase in assessment which would be involved, the pros and cons of doing this, and state "IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO RETURN THIS BALLOT THEN YOUR VOTE WILL BE COUNTED AS AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE".
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Roger - that 2/3 requirement was put there for a purpose - especially to stop a board from trying shenanigans to shove changes they might want. Robert's rules says if a vote requires 2/3 of the entire membership to approve something, an abstention will have the same effect as a "no" vote. An abstention is not a vote. I don't think a board has the authority to declare an abstention as a "yes" vote if the documents require 2/3 of the membership to approve a change. If my HOA tried that, I would challenge them legally. Harold
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Harold, isn't the 2/3 vote you refer to is for changing the Declaration? You are correct when amending the Declaration. Not responding is the same as a no vote and I would never recommend this approach when amending the Declaration.

Meanwhile, the By-laws usually state what is needed to approve the annual budget and amount of the annual assessment. Usually this is allowed by the Board and should be ratified by the members present at the annual meeting. Approval usually only requires a majority vote of the members present and voting. The basis for my suggestion is to allow all members, not just a few, the opportunity to vote.
HaroldS (Arizona)
Posts: 906
Posted:
Roger - I am referring to the same 2/3 requirement you were in your post of 10:01. Why is approval of a large expense different than amending the declarations? And their documents apparently required 2/3 approval for this large expense 2 years ago. I just don't think your suggestion of counting abstentions as a yes vote is legal for approving a large expense or amending the declarations or actually any item brought before the members that requires 2/3 approval.
You now state that those in attendance could approve the budget (irregardless if there is a large increase?), but you only suggested they mail ballots to all members as a courtesy since this budget would obviously affect their assessment. Shouldn't it be if this budget goes over whatever % icrease is allowed by their documents, that a ballot to all members is required for approval, period? Harold
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Harold, I obviously was not clear about getting 2/3 to return a ballot - that referred to my experiences when amending the Declaration. That is totally different than an increase in the annual budget. The procedures for approval of annual budgets is usually defined by the HOA's By-laws. The By-laws may allow the Board to approve the annual budget. Some By-laws require ratification by a majority of the members present at the annual meeting while other By-laws limit the amount of increase the Board can approve. No By-laws, that I am aware of, have ever required approval of budgets by 2/3 of all members; if they did a budget may never get approved.

In regards to your question:
"Shouldn't it be if this budget goes over whatever % increase is allowed by their documents, that a ballot to all members is required for approval, period?"
My answer is no because the HOA needs to operate as a business. But I think limiting the % annual increase which can be approved by only the Board is a good idea. If a large increase in assessment is proposed then those members interested will attend (or be represented at)and present their arguments against increases.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Erika, it also depends on what is in your Governing Documents concerning trash pickup, if it is clearly up to the homeowner to decide their own vender, than yes you probably need a two thirds yes vote on the matter to change it. If however it was always an Association responsibility to handle trash pickup and for whatever reason a prior BOD chose to abdicate their responsibility, then no the current BOD would not need a vote to change things. On the whole it makes good business sense to have one vendor for all the reasons Roger stated.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Ericka:

What do your governing docs say? Ours specifically state that the BOD can appoint one single trash company for the neighborhood and impose it with 90 days notice to the residents. We are not required to get 2/3 vote even though the homeowners are responsible for their own.

However, does that make it the wise thing to do? We brought this issue up last spring with all the upsides 1) reduction of about $30 per quarter in trash dues 2)one pick-up date for the neighborhood as opposed to three or four 3) less wear and tear on roads 4) less chance of a kid getting hit by a truck 5) overall beauty of the neighborhood as trash cans will be out only one day instead of the 3-4 we have now.

We have a group of residents who were adamately oppossed to the change and things got really heated. People like to be able to make their own choices, this is something I would be careful with. We even went so far as to tell our community that it will not be mandatory, but if we got a committment from 80% of the residents (that is all the trash company wanted) we would sign a contract and they would save $30 a quarter. We never came close.
ErikaR (Florida)
Posts: 19
Posted:
Thank you for all the feedback. Our CCR's state the homeowner is responsible. This has been very helpful to me.

DonN (Michigan)
Posts: 357
Posted:
ErikaR

After the long dialogue, I believe you have your answer. The board can only authorize a service and assess the cost to the members if the service is specifically authorized in the CC&Rs. One must beware of any provision in the CC&Rs that states the board may, in its sole judgment, authorize some action ... . Developers may write some provisions into the CC&Rs so they can control everything, through the developer's authority to appoint the board while the development is unfinished. With a 2/3 vote for amendment, such provisions are difficult to remove, so the board after transition has such authority. When you bought property subject to the recorded CC&Rs, you agreed to the terms even though you may consider them onerous.

Often the place to start an inquiry into a proposed action is to review the governing documents.

The board has a fiduciary duty to adhere to the governing documents, often called the duty of obedience in the literature. But many boards don't bother to first check the governing documents, and seem to believe they know better. This is a source of many of the conflicts between the board and members. Members' protection from abuse from boards requires obedience to the governing documents.

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