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NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:


At our HOA meeting tonight in open forum our President made it a point to comment that I was one of the board members who originally approved our rough draft last year yet I am not supportive of the new draft that was sent to our homeowner's just a few weeks and she pointed it out to the membership.

(We are in the process of approving this packet. I mentioned that there are a few editions I don't recall seeing and don't agree upon the mailed packet. )

(why she even pointed that out I have no idea!!_)

She then mentioned during open forum that I must have memory lapses because it's the same document our board last year approved while I was on it.

I stood up and told her to stop the personal attack, she proceeded to tell me I could leave if I wanted too.

Several other homeowner's told her to calm it down and insisted that I stay...

Truth being, I do have a newly diagnosed neurological problem, and an on medications that are affecting my memory... but I don't recall a few items of concern on our draft of the cc&rs.

Giving this is a HOA forum, I was hoping to get some support or advice if this was handled sufficiently or how do you respond to a psuedo personal attack by a board president during an open session of an hoa meeting? I have not a clue

Our current cc&rs do not allow for removal of board members except by majority vote of homeowner's.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It was done in an open meeting (which was wrong).

Based on your post, you were given an opportunity to clarify why you no longer support the version being voted on (which was right).

The President chose to belittle you (which was wrong).

You informed the President to knock it off (which was proper providing it was done politely - i.e. not stooping to her level).

She replied you were welcome to leave the meeting (which was improper and demonstrated poor character)

other members rose to your defense (OUTSTANDING and proper).

Bottom line, the membership were able to see the character of the people they elected. Providing you didn't stoop to her level and kept your remarks civil there you did the proper thing. The fault was the Presidents - not yours.
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Noelle:
You need to focus on the bylaws you object to and ignore all the personal attacks. Have you informed your community about your objections by mail or door to door information? Get the objectionable bylaws stopped and then worry about a personal vendetta.
Jeanne
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Noelle - were you specific about your objections?
Perhaps this newer version has some details that were added or deleted. You should have sited specific objections.

Ask to get on the final review committee, if there is one.

NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:
I apologize about the vague post.

Our cc&rs' were over 25 years old. We were out of compliance on many levels with these old bylaws and ccrs with local and state laws. ( some simple and some not ) So in 09 I was on the board and we worked with a hired attorney
who essentially updated and cleaned up our bylaws back then. Meanwhile, in Sept 09 we as a board approved the draft we worked on. Meanwhile a few months later I resigned from the board for personal reasons.

Fast forward to October 2010. Over one year later. Our cc&rs and bylaws we approved back in 2009 are sent to homeowner's for voting. No notice of the HOA doing this other than a packet received by homeowner's. One prominent homeowner did a group letter stating that we never were given a draft to review previously or any communication except a packet. I myself reviewed the packet and noted more than several edits that are were added, or at least I DO NOT recall seeing a few changes. These changes are enough for me not to agree with the current new draft.

One of our homeowners' who is well tenured, have lived here since the build date wrote a simple letter, had other homeowner's sign it. It was a simple letter that stated our current cc'rs. that were being given to us to vote on were never presented, invited committee participation and we'd like to ask for an open forum and possible negotiation of current proposed new ccts.

That letter that I signed along with a number of members prompted an email accusing "past board members to undermine" and actually stated I those past board members have a memory lapse. This was an email that sent via our HOA website and went to all homeowners.

None the less, the board President made the comment to me personally and brought this up during open forum. It was a personal attack, 2 other board members told her to calm down , insisted that I stay after I was asked to leave.. It' was a personal attack in front of our membership....

The CCRs as is will not be passed by the majority. We as a membership are requesting to allow a committee to be formed to clean up and make the current draft more acceptable. The curretn statemtnent from the President and Board is that they ware not open to this and can push the current ccrs via court.

I am not sure where to go with this, but I am researching what we can do as a membership.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Noelle,

If this comes up again just tell the Pres you don't recall having earlier approved the draft, but even if you did you have a right to change your mind. It was a rough draft, meaning changes could be made and you now feel some changes are warranted.
NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 11/17/2010 12:13 AM
It was done in an open meeting (which was wrong).

Based on your post, you were given an opportunity to clarify why you no longer support the version being voted on (which was right).

The President chose to belittle you (which was wrong).

You informed the President to knock it off (which was proper providing it was done politely - i.e. not stooping to her level).

She replied you were welcome to leave the meeting (which was improper and demonstrated poor character)

other members rose to your defense (OUTSTANDING and proper).

Bottom line, the membership were able to see the character of the people they elected. Providing you didn't stoop to her level and kept your remarks civil there you did the proper thing. The fault was the Presidents - not yours.

Tim, I made the comment when I was being belittled.. "I don't recall seeing such and such addition" The president move her hand and shook her head and stated to me.."you must be having a memory lapse " I spoke loudly back.."stop the personal attack" She started to say "you were on the ... " I shoouted "stop! it now!" then she asked me to leave..then members told the pres to calm down and I metioned outlout that the president loves to do this type of thing as it's her power trip".. ( spoken out of emotion) and I was told by the membership stay here. you have every right.

That is what happened per details.

None the less, I need to research what we can do. We were essentially told to as a group that the current ccrs can be passed through legally in a court of law.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Noelle,

You made a statement that the President can push the CCR's through the courts.

No they can't. There is a provision where the courts could reduce the percentage to approve from 2/3 or higher to around 50%, but certain things must take place. At least 50% of the membership would have had to vote yes. Attached is a link to a couple of court cases that might help you and the Association.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/CourtApprovalofCCRs/tabid/1318/Default.aspx
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Noelle:
I hope you are aware that you never have to update bylaws because of changes in state law. State law always trumps bylaws. So why spend the money?
Jeanne
NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 11/17/2010 10:34 AM
Noelle,

You made a statement that the President can push the CCR's through the courts.

No they can't. There is a provision where the courts could reduce the percentage to approve from 2/3 or higher to around 50%, but certain things must take place. At least 50% of the membership would have had to vote yes. Attached is a link to a couple of court cases that might help you and the Association.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/MainIndex/CourtApprovalofCCRs/tabid/1318/Default.aspx

Thank you Richard. I read this, the information that was presented last night by our Board was NOT accurate. This link has been very very helpful. I also added this as a bookmark to my computer.

Next is waiting to see what happens with our election... every person I have spoken to has already voted a no.

Instead of focusing on the Prez. who seems to have some personal issues.... ( really who cares at this point ) I offered to and have found 4 people including myself who are willing to form a committee ease the burden of re-editing the biggest issues.
PatriciaW4 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
It would seem to me that using Robert's Rules, you could have called the President "Out of Order" and asked another rto "Call the member to order" If there was a manager present, he/she would have been the apporpriate person to call the member to order. RR is the best way to correct poor or unacceptable behavior during meetings.
NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:
Patricia.. the funny part is... The President.. WHO FOLLOWS ROBERTS RULES.. lost all composure. and the management did nothing to compose the situation..

It's done, and over with. Working on the pushing through the ccrs with some edits. Our current president will not be able to serve under new ccrs as she si chornically behind in her dues. It's the one saving grace for me to focus on.... behind in 3 mos dues. no servery.. last I heard she was 6 months behind.. it's only a matter of time before a change comes around.
NoelleC3
Posts: 43
Posted:
Patricia.. the funny part is... The President.. WHO FOLLOWS ROBERTS RULES.. lost all composure. and the management did nothing to compose the situation..

It's done, and over with. Working on the pushing through the ccrs with some edits. Our current president will not be able to serve under new ccrs as she si chornically behind in her dues. It's the one saving grace for me to focus on.... behind in 3 mos dues. no servery.. last I heard she was 6 months behind.. it's only a matter of time before a change comes around.

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