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LindaN3 (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Florida - We have a CAM(Condo Assoc.Manager)age 50,who for the past 5 years has been on SSI. She is too ill to work full time, is on Social Security disability. She is not allowed to make a salary for more than 11.5 hours per week, but works more than 30 hours. Our Assoc. pays her only 11.5 hours worth. This past Sept. 2010 she was notified that she made too much money & social security dropped her. Now she's reapplying (6 mos. wait). If she get's reinstated, is our HOA breaking disability laws by not paying her what she works? I feel she is defrauding the government by claiming to work only 11.5 hours, but working 30+ hours per week. I too feel we are defrauding the govnt. too by accommodating her wage situation. Should we get legal advice.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,

YA THINK??? If your association is aware of her fraud to the SSA, then you could be guilty as well by paying her wages to keep her under the limit. These are MY tax dollars as well and I turn in anyone who is guilty of fraud. Do the right thing, hire someone else or make her compliant by limiting her hours and wages.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Sounds like it's HER problem.
You have a job position that requires 30 hours.
She needs to decide if she wants to take it or stay on SSI. That's between her, her Dr. and the SSA.
The HOA has done nothing wrong. Just be sure you issue her a valid employee's check, with all deductions verified.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
She is not allowed to make a salary for more than 11.5 hours per week, but works more than 30 hours.


Hmmmm.... paid for 11.5 but works 30? I don't know anyone who would agree to work that many hours for free...... unless they were making a little on the side. I recommend a complete audit of your finances.

Also if your HOA knows she is working 30 hours and you only pay her for 11.5 that is a liability. If something goes wrong and she sues you for back wages, your HOA will definitely loose and the court will require you to pay back wages and maybe a penalty.

As for her social security, that is heresy. You don't actually know whats going on with her personal finances. You just know what she tells you.

Good luck with that.
LindaN3 (Florida)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Heresy it is not. I am on the Board of Directors & Personnel Committee. We talked of this, have the letter from Social Security & saw when & why they stopped paying her the disability pay she was getting. At the same time, she has now reapplied and 5 months from now we'll (the Association) be back again facing the same situation. My concern is that we're putting the Association in a compromising situation by accommodating this, and to go further, am I opening up myself as a BOD for being sued down the road?
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Linda,
Yes, the word is fraud. You need to make a decision on whether to pay her illegally or to get into compliance with SSI regulations. SHE needs to know that SHE is putting you and the association into a position that could be costly to the association if you got called in on an audit of her finances. Why risk that. Be straight forward. It is tough to do the right thing which might not be right for her but it your responsibility to take care of the HOA first and foremost.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Linda,

I must agree with Donna. The assn is also committing fraud by only paying her for working 11.5 hrs instead of the 30+ hrs she works, because the board knows she will lose her SSI if she claims to be working more than 11.5 hrs.

IMO, the board needs to let this person go and find a mgr who is NOT on SSI and can legally work the number of hours required to perform their job!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 11/09/2010 6:32 AM

Hmmmm.... paid for 11.5 but works 30? I don't know anyone who would agree to work that many hours for free...... unless they were making a little on the side.

Ever be elected to the Board of Directors? Many of us work that many hours for free ;-)
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
It is NOT the HOA's responsibility to monitor the personal finances of its employees or vendors.

She's a big girl and knows what she's doing. She knows exactly how much she can earn before her SSI gets reduced or dropped.

If you have a 30 hour job, then hire someone who can work 30 hours. If this is something she is willing to do for 11.5 hours pay, then so be it.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Susan,

The problem is that the BOD knows what she is doing, therefore,they are aiding and abetting. It has nothing to do with monitoring her personal finances. What it has to do with is perpetrating her fraud by continuing to employ her while knowing that she is defrauding the govt. At least that's my opinion.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
If the Association wishes to keep this person and avoid issues, they should contract her services for a set fee vs. hourly. This way, how many hours the individual works is up to her. The Association is only expecting the duties to be performed that they paid a set amount for. If the individual can complete those duties in 1 hr or 100 hrs it makes no difference to the Association.

Now lets talk about ethics. The Board has been made aware that the person they contracted services from appears to be unethical - based on the original posters posting. Does the Association desire to maintain a working relationship with a person of questionable ethics? If they do wish to keep this working relationship, should they minimize any lapse in ethics by removing any finances from this persons control?

The Board can easily minimize possible repercussions to the Association by modifying the contract to a fee for service vs. fee for hours worked contract.
That's an easy decision. The tougher decisions come when it involves ethics.

Tim
MichaelS26 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
I too am on SSI. The responsibly falls on here to report here hours truthfully. If she is reinstated in 6 months it will be with a penalty. If you know she is falsifying her hours she is reporting to the government. It is your responsibility to report that. If you don't. You could be considered as part of her scheme to defraud the social security system. She sounds like a bad apple you should not be associated with
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Ever be elected to the Board of Directors? Many of us work that many hours for free ;-)


But she is an employee, not a director. She has already proven she is unethical. Would you really want someone who is good at fudging number in charge of your finances. LOL. Give me a break!

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