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DonS5 (Maryland)
Posts: 3
Posted:
In my HOA it requires a 90% vote to amend HOA bylaws. The problem is we can not get enough members to vote (very small HOA 21 homes) and so a stale mate is in place. How can a board correct this?
DonS5 (Maryland)
Posts: 3
Posted:
also can not voting be considered a yes? Some one please help me and reply to this! Thanks.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
You would have to have a yes or no vote on amending the Bylaws. You would need 90% yes votes
DonS5 (Maryland)
Posts: 3
Posted:
so thats it? they dont vote and nothing goes forward and the BOD/residents are powerless?
EdS10 (Washington)
Posts: 3
Posted:
That percentage is surprising. Bylaws usually don't need such a high threshold for amending as Covenants do. Amending our bylaws only requires a 60% support at a membership meeting with a quorum present. Our covenants are another matter. Initially in our association, 90% support was necessary for amending our covenants until we utilized our proxies into a 'proxy-ballot' format to get a higher rate of voter participation. We canvassed the neighborhood (32 units) to garner as many ballots as possible to be used at the time of our meeting. One of the first amendments was to eliminate the 90% requirement and instead revert to state law which only required 75% support. Still a difficult task but within reach if the issues are clearly spelled out for the members to decide whether or not it's in the best interests of the community. Thank God, in our case it's been very successful.

EdS10

GerryH (DE)
Posts: 43
Posted:
Agreed if the bylaws say xx% of the members is required to modify, then you will need xx% of all of the members indicating a positive or yes vote to approve. People not voting are not considered positive votes.

You also need to be careful how you bylaws are worded because we have different wording for different types of issues.

% of members - which means the required percentage of all of the members of the community, if they attend a meeting or not.

% of votes - This only means the required percentage of only those members who actually cast a vote.

Most bylaws I've seen are always % of members for the required passaged.

Qourum requirement is only a requirement to permit a meeting to be held, it does not change the requirement for voting requirements.

I also agree with one of the other posts who relating to proxy/ballot forms, when we implemented similar forms our voting participation increased from 25% to 60%.
NameW (Virginia)
Posts: 74
Posted:
In Virginia, not voting is a yes, ONLY, if we are talking about a vote by certified mail or with proof of mailing. Virgina's Title 55 provides for situations where required quorums don't show up.

In my HA we did this dance a decade ago to raise assessments from their 1970s rate. We had to have a 2/3 attendance and special election, but no one showed up. We finally went with the Title 55 solution of a registered mail to all members, recorded the vote at the next regular meeting, then notarized the count and filed it as a Covenants Amendment. Your State may, or may not, allow this route.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
NameW,

Please provide the VA statute that specifies a non-vote is a yes.

I have never found documentation stating this. I've always understood that a non-vote is a non-vote, i.e. an abstention. I refer you to Roberts Rules of Order:

In the usual situation, where either a majority vote or a two-thirds vote is required, abstentions have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the vote since what is required is either a majority or two thirds of the votes cast. On the other hand, if the vote required is a majority or two thirds of the members present, or a majority or two thirds of the entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a "no" vote.

NameW (Virginia)
Posts: 74
Posted:
TimB4
Try 55-515.1 (can find a copy at http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+55-515.1 It is worthwhile for anyone in a VA HOA to peruse this site periodically (as VA changes things every now and then) also see Title 13 non-stock corporations.

"A. In the event that any provision in the declaration requires the written consent of a mortgagee in order to amend the bylaws or the declaration, the association shall be deemed to have received the written consent of a mortgagee if the association sends the text of the proposed amendment by certified mail, return receipt requested, or by regular mail with proof of mailing to the mortgagee at the address supplied by such mortgagee in a written request to the association to receive notice of proposed amendments to the declaration and receives no written objection to the adoption of the amendment from the mortgagee within 60 days of the date that the notice of amendment is sent by the association, unless the declaration expressly provides otherwise. If the mortgagee has not supplied an address to the association, the association shall be deemed to have received the written consent of a mortgagee if the association sends the text of the proposed amendment by certified mail, return receipt requested, to the mortgagee at the address filed in the land records or with the local tax assessor's office, and receives no written objection to the adoption of the amendment from the mortgagee within 60 days of the date that the notice of amendment is sent by the association, unless the declaration expressly provides otherwise. "

I can't seem to boldface here like you can, so the relevant language above is:
"..shall be deemed to have received the written consent of a mortgagee if the association sends the text of the proposed amendment by certified mail, return receipt requested, to the mortgagee at the address filed in the land records or with the local tax assessor's office, and receives no written objection to the adoption of the amendment from the mortgagee within 60 days of the date that the notice of amendment is sent by the association,.."
NameW (Virginia)
Posts: 74
Posted:
I might add that in my experience a lot of homeowners thought as you did. Were they ever surprised to learn the VA Legislature didn't agree.

Morale of the law is vote yes, or vote no, but never ever ignore it.
NameW (Virginia)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Also, FYI, just in case someone in VA is saying hmmmm..,

'Proof of mailing' from the US Post Office is lots cheaper than certified mail. Just remember to keep the proof of mailing sheets with other important papers like the deeds to the utility pipes, etc.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Name W,

This passage doesn't apply to members of the Association or the actual vote. It doesn't say that a members failure to vote is considered an affirmative. It's only talking about consent from the mortgagee (i.e. the bank)to change the documents if you followed the proper procedures to adopt the change.

Typically, only the member may vote. Since older mortgage notes required approval from the note holder for any changes to the governing documents, coupled with the fact that the note holders hardly ever responds to such requests, this passage was written to allow the Association to function. However, unless the governing documents specify that the note holder controls the vote (vs. the member) a vote is still required and a non-vote is just that, a non-vote.

To add bold to a section use the following:

Prior to the text to be bold (remove the spaces) < b >
After the text to be bold (remove the spaces) < / b >

To place a link in the document, I use the info here. Or just do a google search for http link code

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Correction: I should have said mortgagee and not mortgagee in the second sentence.
NameW (Virginia)
Posts: 74
Posted:
Thank you

LoL. You are right. Good thing no one actually challenged the raise before the year passed.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NameW on 11/08/2010 9:02 PM
I might add that in my experience a lot of homeowners thought as you did. Were they ever surprised to learn the VA Legislature didn't agree.

Morale of the law is vote yes, or vote no, but never ever ignore it.

Did your Association get legal advise on this prior to interpreting the passage this way?

The first line of paragraph A pretty much sums it up: " In the event that any provision in the declaration requires the written consent of a mortgagee in order to amend the bylaws or the declaration, the association shall be deemed to have received the written consent of a mortgagee if the association "

Additionally, Paragraph D specifies that "A declaration may be amended by a two-thirds vote of the owners. This subsection may be applied to an association subject to a declaration recorded prior to July 1, 1999, if the declaration is silent on how it may be amended or upon the amendment of that declaration in accordance with its requirements.
MichaelS26 (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
our bylaws require 61% vote to change any rules. We have never come close to meeting quorum. We have 304 homes. Last election 17 people voted. You think you have problems.
RickB4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 23
Posted:
Some states allow for a non vote to be considered a yes, provided you follow certain rules/procedures to ensure all members are notified. See this article on amending covenants in Colorado: http://www.cohoalaw.com/your-governing-documents-should-your-covenants-be-amended.html You may want to check your state laws to see if such a provision exists and if caps on the % required to amend exist in more recent state laws. I would be curious if anyone here has done such a thing. And does the election still require a quorum to be valid? I would think it would minimally require a quorum to count, even if a non-vote is considered as a positive/yes vote.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonS5 on 11/08/2010 8:56 AM
In my HOA it requires a 90% vote to amend HOA bylaws. The problem is we can not get enough members to vote (very small HOA 21 homes) and so a stale mate is in place. How can a board correct this?

Bylaws which require a percentage which is unrealistice to achieve need to be amended to realistice percentages for quorums, petitions, and amendments. To achieve approval for changes the percentage I suggest using a mail in ballot vote and the first time trying to amend to realistic percentage. Once that amendment is achieved then other items can be addressed as necessary.
Realistic percentages could be:
1) Amend Bylaws - 2/3 approval of those members voting at a duly called members meeting
2) Quorum - 5% of 500+ members; 10% of 100 to 500 members; 20% of 50-100 members; 30% less than 50 members
3) Petition - signed by 20% of members

Using these percentages with 21 members a quorum would be 7 members. With only 7 voting it would take 5 approving to amend the Bylaws at a duly called meeting.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NameW on 11/08/2010 9:21 PM
Thank you

LoL. You are right. Good thing no one actually challenged the raise before the year passed.

NameW,

Looks like we were posting at the same time. Sorry if I went overboard with the explanation.

Tim
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Rick,

The article you provided a website for does address voting on an amendment. However, it does not say members who do not vote will be considered as yes votes; that only pertains to first mortgagee's. Oftentimes the CCRs will require first mortgagees to be notified of and vote for amendments however it's rare that they respond. Therefore some states have passed laws stating that a "non-vote" shall count as a yes vote. I've never heard of this being applied to the members of an assn. Of course that doesn't mean there isn't an HOA out there with that rule; I've just not heard of any.

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