JamesM21 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
i got a parking violation on 10/28/2010 from hoa for head in only parking violation in 4/24/2010 and hearing on 11/13/2010 can they fine me for this . i am in los angeles
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hoa head in parking fine with no signs posted
Started by JamesM21 • 11 replies • 2376 views
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SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Only if their documents say they can.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
James,
I've posted below section 1363(g) of the CA Davis-Stirling Act which allows the BOD to impose monetary penalties (fines) for CCR violations. If the BOD considers imposing a fine a disciplinary action then 1363(h) will also apply. Frankly I think 1363(h) is rather ambiguous as the meaning of "disciplinary action" could be construed to mean several things. Some may consider imposing a fine a disciplinary action, some may not. But, the answer to your question is,"yes" they can impose a fine, but whether you have a right to be heard before the fine is imposed is, IMO, questionable.
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(g) If an association adopts or has adopted a policy imposing any monetary penalty, including any fee, on any association member for a violation of the governing documents or rules of the association, including any monetary penalty relating to the activities of a guest or invitee of a member, the board of directors shall adopt and distribute to each member, by personal delivery or first-class mail, a schedule of the monetary penalties that may be assessed for those violations, which shall be in accordance with authorization for member discipline contained in the governing documents. The board of directors shall not be required to distribute any additional schedules of monetary penalties unless there are changes from the schedule that was adopted and distributed to the members pursuant to this subdivision.
(h) When the board of directors is to meet to consider or impose discipline upon a member, the board shall notify the member in writing, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting. The notification shall contain, at a minimum, the date, time, and place of the meeting, the nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and a statement that the member has a right to attend and may address the board at the meeting. The board of directors of the association shall meet in executive session if requested by the member being disciplined. If the board imposes discipline on a member, the board shall provide the member a written notification of the disciplinary action, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, within 15 days following the action. A disciplinary action shall not be effective against a member unless the board fulfills the requirements of this subdivision.
I've posted below section 1363(g) of the CA Davis-Stirling Act which allows the BOD to impose monetary penalties (fines) for CCR violations. If the BOD considers imposing a fine a disciplinary action then 1363(h) will also apply. Frankly I think 1363(h) is rather ambiguous as the meaning of "disciplinary action" could be construed to mean several things. Some may consider imposing a fine a disciplinary action, some may not. But, the answer to your question is,"yes" they can impose a fine, but whether you have a right to be heard before the fine is imposed is, IMO, questionable.
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(g) If an association adopts or has adopted a policy imposing any monetary penalty, including any fee, on any association member for a violation of the governing documents or rules of the association, including any monetary penalty relating to the activities of a guest or invitee of a member, the board of directors shall adopt and distribute to each member, by personal delivery or first-class mail, a schedule of the monetary penalties that may be assessed for those violations, which shall be in accordance with authorization for member discipline contained in the governing documents. The board of directors shall not be required to distribute any additional schedules of monetary penalties unless there are changes from the schedule that was adopted and distributed to the members pursuant to this subdivision.
(h) When the board of directors is to meet to consider or impose discipline upon a member, the board shall notify the member in writing, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting. The notification shall contain, at a minimum, the date, time, and place of the meeting, the nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and a statement that the member has a right to attend and may address the board at the meeting. The board of directors of the association shall meet in executive session if requested by the member being disciplined. If the board imposes discipline on a member, the board shall provide the member a written notification of the disciplinary action, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, within 15 days following the action. A disciplinary action shall not be effective against a member unless the board fulfills the requirements of this subdivision.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
James,
This is from an attorney web site specializing in California HOA law. Their web site is www.davis-stirling.com
Due Process
Penalties, such as fines and suspension of privileges, cannot be imposed against a member of a California homeowners or condominium association unless due process has been followed. This includes disciplinary action for repeat violations. "Due process" is procedural fairness in the board's decision-making process. The process must be fair and reasonable, and not arbitrary or capricious. Ironwood Owners Ass'n IX v. Solomon.
Elements of Due Process. The elements of due process include: (i) giving the accused notice of the alleged violation; (ii) providing a reasonable opportunity for the person to defend themselves; (iii) knowing the identity of the accuser; and (iv) giving the accused an opportunity to examine and refute the evidence. Applebaum v. Board of Directors (1980) 104 Cal.App.3d 648, 657; Carson v. Glass Bottle Blowers (1951) 37 Cal.2d 134, 144; Civil Code §1363(h); Civil Code §1363.05(b); Corp. Code §7341(c)(3).
When Violations Occur. Before imposing penalties, associations should do the following:
1. Notice of Procedures. The procedure for imposing penalties or suspending membership privileges must be in the governing documents. In the alternative, it must be annually sent to all members. Corp. Code §7341(c)(1).
2. Notice of Hearing. The person must be given written notice of the violation and hearing by personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting at which monetary penalties are imposed (unless the governing documents provide for a longer notice period). Civil Code §1363(h). For suspension of privileges, the notice must be at least 15 days prior to the hearing. Corp. Code §7341(d). The notice must be reasonably calculated to provide actual notice to the member. Corp. Code §7341(d). The notice must contain the following:
* The date, time, and place of the hearing,
* The nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and
* A statement that the member has a right to attend the hearing and present evidence in his/her defense. Civil Code §1363(h). See sample notice.
3. Executive Session. Hearings should always be in executive session. Members have the right to submit their defense in writing rather than make an appearance before the board. Corp. Code §7341(c)(3).
4. Defense. The accused has the right to know the identity of his/her accuser and must have an opportunity to examine and refute the evidence. This may include questions during the hearing.
5. Decision. Unless the association's governing documents provide for a longer notice period, notice of the board's decision must be given by personal delivery or first-class mail within 15 days following the board's decision Civil Code §1363(h); Corp. Code §7341(c)(2).
This is from an attorney web site specializing in California HOA law. Their web site is www.davis-stirling.com
Due Process
Penalties, such as fines and suspension of privileges, cannot be imposed against a member of a California homeowners or condominium association unless due process has been followed. This includes disciplinary action for repeat violations. "Due process" is procedural fairness in the board's decision-making process. The process must be fair and reasonable, and not arbitrary or capricious. Ironwood Owners Ass'n IX v. Solomon.
Elements of Due Process. The elements of due process include: (i) giving the accused notice of the alleged violation; (ii) providing a reasonable opportunity for the person to defend themselves; (iii) knowing the identity of the accuser; and (iv) giving the accused an opportunity to examine and refute the evidence. Applebaum v. Board of Directors (1980) 104 Cal.App.3d 648, 657; Carson v. Glass Bottle Blowers (1951) 37 Cal.2d 134, 144; Civil Code §1363(h); Civil Code §1363.05(b); Corp. Code §7341(c)(3).
When Violations Occur. Before imposing penalties, associations should do the following:
1. Notice of Procedures. The procedure for imposing penalties or suspending membership privileges must be in the governing documents. In the alternative, it must be annually sent to all members. Corp. Code §7341(c)(1).
2. Notice of Hearing. The person must be given written notice of the violation and hearing by personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting at which monetary penalties are imposed (unless the governing documents provide for a longer notice period). Civil Code §1363(h). For suspension of privileges, the notice must be at least 15 days prior to the hearing. Corp. Code §7341(d). The notice must be reasonably calculated to provide actual notice to the member. Corp. Code §7341(d). The notice must contain the following:
* The date, time, and place of the hearing,
* The nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and
* A statement that the member has a right to attend the hearing and present evidence in his/her defense. Civil Code §1363(h). See sample notice.
3. Executive Session. Hearings should always be in executive session. Members have the right to submit their defense in writing rather than make an appearance before the board. Corp. Code §7341(c)(3).
4. Defense. The accused has the right to know the identity of his/her accuser and must have an opportunity to examine and refute the evidence. This may include questions during the hearing.
5. Decision. Unless the association's governing documents provide for a longer notice period, notice of the board's decision must be given by personal delivery or first-class mail within 15 days following the board's decision Civil Code §1363(h); Corp. Code §7341(c)(2).
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
Richard,
Have you taken the time to look at the Corp Code, specifically section 7341(c)(3)? Well,if you had you would know that it only applies to a member who has been expelled, suspended or his membership has been terminated. There is no mention of fines or penalties whatsoever.
7341(c)(3) It provides an opportunity for the member to be heard, orally
or in writing, not less than five days before the effective date of
the expulsion, suspension or termination by a person or body
authorized to decide that the proposed expulsion, termination or
suspension not take place.
Davis-Stirling 1363(h) talks about imposing disicipline upon a member; it says nothing specifically about penalties.
1363(h) When the board of directors is to meet to consider or impose discipline upon a member, the board shall notify the member in writing, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting. The notification shall contain, at a minimum, the date, time, and place of the meeting, the nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and a statement that the member has a right to attend and may address the board at the meeting. The board of directors of the association shall meet in executive session if requested by the member being disciplined. If the board imposes discipline on a member, the board shall provide the member a written notification of the disciplinary action, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, within 15 days following the action. A disciplinary action shall not be effective against a member unless the board fulfills the requirements of this subdivision.
As I've said before what you are posting is only an attorney's interpretation and in this case the attorney who wrote this article is even putting words into the statute and making it sound like it applies to something that it does not apply to.
As you may have gathered I'm not a great fan of some of the info posted on this website and, IMO, it would be much better to either post the applicable section from the Davis-Stirling Act or just give the web address for the statutes.
Have you taken the time to look at the Corp Code, specifically section 7341(c)(3)? Well,if you had you would know that it only applies to a member who has been expelled, suspended or his membership has been terminated. There is no mention of fines or penalties whatsoever.
7341(c)(3) It provides an opportunity for the member to be heard, orally
or in writing, not less than five days before the effective date of
the expulsion, suspension or termination by a person or body
authorized to decide that the proposed expulsion, termination or
suspension not take place.
Davis-Stirling 1363(h) talks about imposing disicipline upon a member; it says nothing specifically about penalties.
1363(h) When the board of directors is to meet to consider or impose discipline upon a member, the board shall notify the member in writing, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, at least 10 days prior to the meeting. The notification shall contain, at a minimum, the date, time, and place of the meeting, the nature of the alleged violation for which a member may be disciplined, and a statement that the member has a right to attend and may address the board at the meeting. The board of directors of the association shall meet in executive session if requested by the member being disciplined. If the board imposes discipline on a member, the board shall provide the member a written notification of the disciplinary action, by either personal delivery or first-class mail, within 15 days following the action. A disciplinary action shall not be effective against a member unless the board fulfills the requirements of this subdivision.
As I've said before what you are posting is only an attorney's interpretation and in this case the attorney who wrote this article is even putting words into the statute and making it sound like it applies to something that it does not apply to.
As you may have gathered I'm not a great fan of some of the info posted on this website and, IMO, it would be much better to either post the applicable section from the Davis-Stirling Act or just give the web address for the statutes.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Mary,
I had read the specific Corporation Code. I copied what they spoke of in regards to Due Process, penalties, such as fines and suspension of privileges (suspended or his membership has been terminated). James specifically asked if the BOD could fine him for this. We in California, unlike some other states, have due process, and that is what I posted. If it is in their Rules and Regulations, I would imagine they could.
I used that web site for my research in re-writing our Bylaws. I have spoken to two of their attorneys (one, Adrian Adams would runs the site) on matters pertaining to our HOA and the law itself and will probably be our new law firm for our HOA. Well over 100 Property Management firms and HOA up and down California have a link on their web site for this firm and their expertise in interpreting HOA law for the rest of us. The governing documents, as well as the legislation for most HOA's are written by attorneys, who better to interpret or give an opinion (free of charge) than another attorney. I would use opinion over anyone on this site.
If we take the advise they give in running an HOA, many of the problems discussed on this site would not exist.
I had read the specific Corporation Code. I copied what they spoke of in regards to Due Process, penalties, such as fines and suspension of privileges (suspended or his membership has been terminated). James specifically asked if the BOD could fine him for this. We in California, unlike some other states, have due process, and that is what I posted. If it is in their Rules and Regulations, I would imagine they could.
I used that web site for my research in re-writing our Bylaws. I have spoken to two of their attorneys (one, Adrian Adams would runs the site) on matters pertaining to our HOA and the law itself and will probably be our new law firm for our HOA. Well over 100 Property Management firms and HOA up and down California have a link on their web site for this firm and their expertise in interpreting HOA law for the rest of us. The governing documents, as well as the legislation for most HOA's are written by attorneys, who better to interpret or give an opinion (free of charge) than another attorney. I would use opinion over anyone on this site.
If we take the advise they give in running an HOA, many of the problems discussed on this site would not exist.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesM21 on 11/01/2010 4:26 AM
i got a parking violation on 10/28/2010 from hoa for head in only parking violation in 4/24/2010 and hearing on 11/13/2010 can they fine me for this . i am in los angeles
i got a parking violation on 10/28/2010 from hoa for head in only parking violation in 4/24/2010 and hearing on 11/13/2010 can they fine me for this . i am in los angeles
If it is a violation of the posted rules or CC&R's then yes the HOA may fine you if you are a member, even if you didn't take the time to read and familiarize yourself with them. You have the right to appeal the fine and if you can prove that it is not a published rule you may prevail.
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MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
Richard,
All I'm saying is that the info you posted says CA Code 7341(c)(3) applies to imposing penalties when in fact it pertains to a member's right to be heard b/4 he can be expelled, suspended or his membership terminated. There is no mention of penalties. IMO,what you have posted is false and misleading info. Again, have you taken the time to read the statute?
All I'm saying is that the info you posted says CA Code 7341(c)(3) applies to imposing penalties when in fact it pertains to a member's right to be heard b/4 he can be expelled, suspended or his membership terminated. There is no mention of penalties. IMO,what you have posted is false and misleading info. Again, have you taken the time to read the statute?
JamesM21 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
what i wanted to know is can hoa fine us for head in parking with no signs posted ,and with out warning , i get i have the right to be heard so when i go to the meeting what do i say . many thanks james
JamesM21 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
what i wanted to know is can hoa fine us for head in parking with no signs posted ,and with out warning , i get i have the right to be heard so when i go to the meeting what do i say . many thanks james
JamesM21 (California)
Posts: 6
Posts: 6
Posted:
what i wanted to know is can hoa fine us for head in parking with no signs posted ,and with out warning , i get i have the right to be heard so when i go to the meeting what do i say . many thanks james
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
James,
Signs do not have to be posted saying you may be fined for violating the parking restrictions. The parking restrictions are contained in your CCRs and the board may send you a violation notice if you violate the restriction and fine you IF the CCRs or state law allow fines for CCR violations. At the hearing you state your case, i.e. whether or not you feel you violated the restriction. If you feel the fine should not have been imposed at the point that it was you may also state that, why you feel this way and ask that the fine be waived. Going into the hearing make certain you know exactly what the CCRs and state law say about parking violations, fines and your right to be heard.
Signs do not have to be posted saying you may be fined for violating the parking restrictions. The parking restrictions are contained in your CCRs and the board may send you a violation notice if you violate the restriction and fine you IF the CCRs or state law allow fines for CCR violations. At the hearing you state your case, i.e. whether or not you feel you violated the restriction. If you feel the fine should not have been imposed at the point that it was you may also state that, why you feel this way and ask that the fine be waived. Going into the hearing make certain you know exactly what the CCRs and state law say about parking violations, fines and your right to be heard.
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