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BillT7 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Here is the question. We have a board which has no idea as to follow the law in Florida. We just had a case where the Board voted to have the Husband of the President of the HOA clean rust on the property of a resident who refused to clean up the rust. The President said she could not find a Company who would clean it us in a timely manner. The board voted to have her husband do it after she said he would do it. Noe he is not a licenced contractor in Florida and dose not have any insurance and has a reg full time job as a welder. He did get paid for doing the work and was paid from the HOA funds by check. Was legal by the Florida Law and what could be done to make sure this does happen again?
MichaelT7 (New York)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I don't want to give you the legal advice and I'm curious as to what other's say as well. I'm in a similar situation as I as well as one of the other board members do some of the more minor work around our complex (lightbulb changing, minor painting/mowing). It is my interpretation that this is the reason our HOA has Worker's Comp insurance. I questioned as to why we had it and were paying @$700/annually for Worker's Comp when we have no employees. My understanding is that if either myself or the other board member were injured while doing work, the comp would kick in. I'm hoping there's a Property & Casualty Insurance agent on the forum here that could confirm or deny this. As for whether we pay the board member, yes we do pay him a trivial amount, just a few bucks. I don't take any payment though as I do it more to be a good neighbor and I kind of like doing it.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Read your covenants to see if paying HOA board members for work is allowed. Our board members cannot be paid for services rendered but we can be reimbursed for supplies purchases.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Unless there is a provision in your CC&R's that require all vendors to have a license, I don't think there was anything improper here. Since he "cleaned up rust" - I doubt there was any construction done that would require a contractor's license under Florida law. There is nothing wrong with hiring the presidents husband who is not a Board member to do small jobs as long as he is treated like any other laborer. And since they paid him by check and will probably 1099 him if required; I don't see anything improper here. Now if they continue to hire him for other small jobs you may have a valid complaint but I would let this one go.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
"Clean up rust" what does that mean? Did he simply spray some rust and scrub it away or perhaps wire bush some rust and spray paint it?

Sounds like this may have been a rather simple repair.

How long did this take and what amount was he paid?

MAYBE in this case you don't have some serious problem rather a small issue that the President found a way to handle.

Michael to your question about why your property is paying for worker's comp. insurance that would be a good question if as you state you have no employees.

I would suggest you contact the agent and ask them directly if you would be covered in the event you were injured. I would not be so sure that is the case.

If NOT than why continue this coverage.

Many documents state BOD cannot be compensated for their work as BOD members. If does not mean they cannot be paid when their efforts exceed those of a Board member but rather become a service provider.

Sometimes it is possible for BOD members to have the property's best interest in mind and not all are acting in their own best interest and robbing the property.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
GlenL has the correct perspective on the issue.

I didn't read the first posting clearly enough as the HOA president's husband is a welder by trade. To me, that would be a qualified person to handle rusty metal.

It's a judgement call on the behalf of the board. If residents generally trust the board's leadership and direction, it will be a worthy and efficient hiring. If there's distrust, then nothing will convince the residents that this hiring was nothing more than cronyism.

At the end of the day, was the bill reasonable and was the work what was needed?
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Wasn't this the HUSBAND of a board member? Then it's not a board member "conflict". Hopefully, there was a motion to hire in the minutes.

Unless there's a complaint, let it go. If there is a complaint, then the HOA and all homeowners can "wait" until some hired company can come and go this job.

Sounds like the board got a real good deal.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
One more thing that just came to mind. If this work was performed because the unit owner would not do so then I would guess the cost of these repairs could and should be placed back on the unit owner not the HOA.

So that would result in no cost to the HOA and a job well done.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bill,

I think that you are worried over not much of anything. Think about a broader picture on this. If everytime there is a mess to clean up and it is probably hardly worth calling in a contractor or service person, does it not make sense to have it cleaned up from within the HOA? Be happy that this Husband cleaned it up---probably at a lower rate than some big service company. Gosh, many HOA's have a resident doing small jobs. Some have handymen that are in the community and this is cost effective for the Board to use these people.

You asked if it is illegal?, No unless someone complains that the guy has no insurance or license. Common sense should prevail here. My Husband used to bring his power washer over to our rental unit and wash a few of the neighbors driveways in between the association funded cleaning. He did not ask for a fee but was given "thank you cash" from some of the elderly owners who just appreciated his cleaning.

Sometimes we get too anal about what can and can not be done just to keep our HOA looking good and working for the betterment of the members when someone is willing to step up but their presence is not within the "system". I would say, that you owe the Presidents Husband a thank you. The Board did vote to approve his help.
BillT7 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I really appreciate all the feed back on my concern. I should have been a little mor explect on a few issues and will explain a little further.

On the Rust issue. Here in Florida we have wells which are about 150 feet in depth and used just for water our lawns and each home owner has their own well and watering system. However the water in the ground has a lot of Iron content and when the water lands on the pavement, sidewal, and house it turns to dirty rust color.

In Florida all contractors must have a permit and also have lilabity Insurance to do work. A H.O.A.is a legal Cooperation and should not hire a person to do work for the H.O.A. and receive a Check for their services. Now if the person does do the work as a volunteer then fine for he is not being paid by a cooperation.

Having a resident do work who is not licenced and gets paid to do a job which he or she is not quailified to do is like throwing money away. What if the job is not correctly? What if the owner of the property files a law suite who pays the legal action which will be nessacery to defend the achtions of the boards vote? I am sure the H.O.A. pays.

The issue is there are qualified people who have been trained, have proper papers, and proper insurance, to cover themselves but also the cooperation they are providing a service to. There is another issue here which the board and others have over looked. That is what is called a conflict of interest, for why not send a request for bids, or even ask for a volunteer from the residents.

The property in quest has received four letters to take action on cleaning the rust (there are many companies quailifed in Florida to do this) and have not taken any action on their own. That is the reason the H.O.A. stepped in.

I agree with hiring a person who will do work on ones property and not be to cercerned on the legal issues but I still would be he.

Now here is the kicker to this whole issue and now what does the H.O.A. do? The rust was cleaned up three weeks ago and the Board paid and now it has all returned again so what happens now?? Shoul they have hired a proffessional we the Homeowners could have had some e\leagle recourse but now do they just hire the Presidents husband again?

One should always look at all the facts before making a rash decision.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Bill,

I don't think there is a wrong argument to make.

If the rust issue would arise again, in quick order, no matter the person hired to clean the rust, then it's a push as to whether the HOA should spend extra money on a "professional."

If the neighborhood welder doesn't possess a skill, tools or supplies for rust removal that would remove the rust permanently, then the next step should be a specialist company.

So, if the first round of rust work didn't work, hire a specialist and send the property owner the bill.

An HOA can never go wrong in hiring specialist vendors but you pay for it. However, the HOA president's husband should be thanked for giving it a "go," then the board moves forward.

My in-laws live in Florida and simple rainwater runoff, running across the sidewalks of neighboring homes, stains the concrete an orange color. It's a nuisance.
DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671
Posted:

Bill,

If the rust has returned so quickly, then the owner might want to have a professional look at the well. Something might be going on from down below that can be remedied with a look. What area of the State are you in? I believe that there is a treatment that can bee added to the well which might help. This is the very reason why our covenants prohibit wells in the developement. Some tried to sneak them in but after a letter from the HOA with the possibility of hefty fining, they all stopped the drilling before it got finished.

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