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KW3 (California)
Posts: 146
Posted:
Hi,

I have some quick questions regarding the election of board directors at HOA annual meeting:

1) The bylaws (old and never amended, even after the new CA law of HOA election) states that "Members may so cumulate their votes ONLY IF at least one Member has given notice AT THE MEETING, prior to the voting, of his intention to cumulate votes." I assume this bylaws is set for the elections taken before the new law regarding "mail-in secret ballot", i.e., people go to the annual meeting and vote by "voice" or ballot (everyone votes at the meeting). Now the association follows the new law and send ballot packages to members 30 days before the meeting. Can the association put the instruction stating cumulative voting is allowed in the ballot even when the meeting does not take place yet?

2) The bylaws state that "Every person entitled to vote or execute consents may do so either in person or by proxies." The bylaws also state that "The presence at any meeting, in person or by proxy, of members entitled to cast at least 51% of the total votes of all members shall be a requisite to and shall constitute a quorum... If such a quorum is not present at a meeting, the meeting may be adjourned, by the vote of a majority of the votes present in person or by proxy, to a date not less than 5 nor more than 30 days from the date of the adjourned meeting. The quorum of such adjourned meeting shall be 51%, except that a majority of those present at the original meeting may establish a lower quorum, not less than 25%, for such adjourned meeting."
Questions: A) What happens if say 20% voters mail in their ballots and another 10% voters bring their ballots and cast at the meeting? There are 30% votes, which is under the regular quorum (51%). Can the 10% voters present at the meeting, by the bylaws, vote to reduce the required quorum to 25% and so make it proceed to finish the election? or they have to vote to reduce the quorum AND extend the voting period, so to adjourn the meeting? What about the 20% voters who mail-in their ballots, but absent at the meeting? Do they have a say to the reducing quorum and extending voting?
Question: B) If it is required to vote on reduce quorum and/or extend voting by the whole 30% voters who turn in their votes (by mail and in person at meeting), can a member request for proxy paper sent to all members if the association does not send proxy forms to members? (the purpose of proxy is to establish the whole 30% voting at the meeting for reduce quorum and/or extend voting) Can the association reject the request and not send proxy out?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
KW3

If quorum is not reached, IF a majority of those members present IN PERSOn or by proxy may vote to adjourn the meeting and to a lower quorum as long as it doesn't go below 25%. The persons who cast ballots do not need to be present to count toward any majority.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
This should help you. Look at the question for Reduced Quorum.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/Newsletters/2010Newsletters/BouncedChecks/tabid/3013/Default.aspx
KW3 (California)
Posts: 146
Posted:
Like to add another question: Instead of giving the power to the members present at the meeting as stated in the bylaws, can the association send ballot packages to members with a note stating: "The board may extend the voting period, ..." and not mention anything about members' right to reduce quorum and/or extend voting?
KW3 (California)
Posts: 146
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 10/11/2010 6:15 PM
KW3

If quorum is not reached, IF a majority of those members present IN PERSOn or by proxy may vote to adjourn the meeting and to a lower quorum as long as it doesn't go below 25%. The persons who cast ballots do not need to be present to count toward any majority.

So in my example, only those 10% present at the meeting in person can vote for/against reduce quorum/extend voting. Those 20% mail-in voters have no voting power for that. Right?

Can those 10% voters present at the meeting ONLY vote to reduce the quorum and finish the election at the same meeting without adjourning the meeting to a later date (extend voting)?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Sure...If you want to conduct an improper election.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KW3 on 10/11/2010 6:41 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 10/11/2010 6:15 PM
KW3

If quorum is not reached, IF a majority of those members present IN PERSOn or by proxy may vote to adjourn the meeting and to a lower quorum as long as it doesn't go below 25%. The persons who cast ballots do not need to be present to count toward any majority.


So in my example, only those 10% present at the meeting in person can vote for/against reduce quorum/extend voting. Those 20% mail-in voters have no voting power for that. Right?

Can those 10% voters present at the meeting ONLY vote to reduce the quorum and finish the election at the same meeting without adjourning the meeting to a later date (extend voting)?

That is all they can do. No other business may be conducted becuase you have NO meeting.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
USUALLY, You must give notice so people will get their butts to the meeting to make the new quorum. Save the written ballots and maybe some more will come in, too. All Members must be noticed of the new meeting date.

The only business would be to count the ballots and anounce the results, once a quorum has been reached to make it a duly called meeting of the HOA.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
KW,

The reason for having the requirement to adjourn the meeting is so that the BOD may have time to contact members who did not attend or send in their proxies to do either so that a quorum may be reached. Allowing those 10% at the meeting the ability to vote to reduce the quorum defeats the purpose of reaching a required quorum. Quorums are set so that elections are not held by a small minority of members such as the 10% that you want to have the ability to reduce the quorum.

It was proper for the board to state in the election packet that cumulative voting is allowed otherwise the members would not know how they can cast their vote if they are not going to attend the meeting. DS allows cumulative voting if so stated in the bylaws and it shall be carried out by secret ballot. Also, since the bylaws allow for proxies, a proxy form should also be included in the meeting packet.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
KW,

Per your Bylaws, the 10% who showed up for the meeting, "present and in person", have the right and ability to vote to adjourn to a later date AND have the right and ability to reduced the quorum percentage as low as 25%. This is unusual, it is normally already stated in the Bylaws what the reduced quorum would be if meeting is voted on to adjourn.

For the election of directors, there is no logically reason to require quorum, except it works to the benefit of those in power that they and the friends they appoint remain in power for as long as they wish. Granted, some Associations have no problem achieving quorum, but how many of them do this through the use of proxies? If quorum is reduced and it falls before 33 1/3%, then ONLY those items that were on the agenda can be voted on. There is protections in Bylaws so that the governing documents can't be changed without a higher percentage. What others advocate, is that elections in HOA be held somewhat like elections on the outside.

Proxies should also be eliminated in California, because D-S doesn't not mandate that proxies be sent with election packet. I can only speak for our Association and they wouldn't send this out, it had to be requested by a homeowner, and then it was "good luck" getting one.

You have to have a new date set for the adjourned meeting. You can not do it the same day as you ask, "not before 5 days or after 30 days" rule.

As long as you have voting by "secret ballot" or "absentee ballots" the tendency will be to have less at the meeting.
KW3 (California)
Posts: 146
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 10/11/2010 6:42 PM
Sure...If you want to conduct an improper election.

Richard, I believe for this you are talking about the matter that the board takes away members' right/power of extending voting and takes by its own hand the unauthorized power. Unfortunately, this "improper" (I called it illegal) election is under way: I received the ballot that states so. I plan to get voters attend the meeting and make the challenge if the president decides to NOT extend the election and claims "no election" due no quorum. Any other idea to deal with this matter?
KW3 (California)
Posts: 146
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryA1 on 10/12/2010 7:54 AM
...
It was proper for the board to state in the election packet that cumulative voting is allowed otherwise the members would not know how they can cast their vote if they are not going to attend the meeting. DS allows cumulative voting if so stated in the bylaws and it shall be carried out by secret ballot. ...

Mary, my point was, if I was right, that according to the (old) bylaws, cumulative voting is allowed ONLY if a certain specified condition is met (see my original post). It is my and other BDs' understanding that at the time (30 days before the meeting) the ballots are sent out, the specific condition is certainly not met yet and so the association has no authority to announce the permission of cumulative voting in the ballots unless the bylaws has been amended to more fit the new election law (the bylaws has not been amended). If the bylaws states no condition for allowing cumulative voting, I would have no question on the matter. Please correct me if any wrong.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
KW

As long as your Bylaws have a provision under the quorum at Member meeting to adjourn to a new date IF quorum is not reached, then it is the responsibility of the chair to make a motion to the Members present to set a new date. They may not want to especially if you're electing the same people again. Also, under your quorum section for member meeting you may have a provision that a new date can be called with a reduced quorum (something like 1/2 of the original number.

Cumulative voting, IF provided for in your Bylaws is only for election of more than two directors. If your election is for two directors only, then cumulative voting is not used. Cumulative voting was put into Bylaws, BY THE DEVELOPER TO GET THE DEVELOPER IN CONTROL OF THE BOARD WHILE THEY WERE BUILDING AND SELLING HOMES.

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