Voting Ballot/Proxy WA State

DarleneB2 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Hi we have 62 lots and have hired a lawyer years ago and have paid over $5000 for his service and still not done. He said we need to update the old 1996 CCR/Articles/Bylaws. We are a SMALL HOA and dues are only $77 a YEAR. Nobody shows up for the meetings and according to our old covenants have to have % that we did not meet. We went door to door to drop off the new CCR's and a Voter Ballot. We informed everyone we will be out in the front entrance to collect the votes. We only received 11 Yes votes. I know even members on the board didn't submit their vote. Problem is we went to another appt. with lawyer and he said that our "voter ballot" was not legal how we worded it. I was asked to come on board as vp about 4 months ago to help out.
I've been to several meeting with the lawyer and he keeps saying we are 2 steps ahead of him and he should of giving us the info vote/proxy, so we waited and waited and just received a proxy but did not give us a "Legal Ballot for WA State". Can anyone type on a response exactly what should be typed on a Ballot since the attorney months later has not givin it to us. We ask for him to help collect dues but he said "we don't want to be to pushy, until once the CCR's etc is finalized. Please help I'm so glad I found this websight!!! :0) Darlene

JeffP6 (Florida)
Posts: 91

Posted:

Time for a new lawyer if you have spent that much dealing with updating old docs. Ours are 1996 as well and we are updating some items in there but it wasnt that difficult.

The Lawyer once we reviewed and approved the proposed amendments , and set the date for the meeting (most docs require a meeting when changing the covenants), provided us with the ballot and the proxy letter.

DarleneB2 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Thanks Jeff,

We did review and approved the proposed amendments, we sent him a copy of the minutes showing this.

He emailed us today after me calling and a month later a proxy but DID NOT provide us with a ballot. So I called today and left a message.

We haven't set up a meeting with the homeowners since we were waiting to have the proxy/Ballot first. Guess we should set up the meeting and yes, we are gonna get a new lawyer. Been so frustrating and am so glad I found this sight, wish we did few years ago.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Why do you need a lawyer to state the motion for you in ballot form? If these are amendments, you are asking for a yea or nay for the proposed new admendment.

Now, about the "ballots" - are you going to provide written ballots for owners to send in?
And you also want a proxy form for those who are not able to attend the meeting, and want someone else to cast their vote? With a written ballot, there will be few proxies needed.

You will need to be concerned with satisfying the quorum requirement for the meeting. What do your documents say about the number of live persons there to make up a quorum, so you can have a "duly called meeting."?

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Darlene:
Beware proxy voting for amendments. See the last paragraph below. It is from www.marylandhomeownersassociation.info. Jeanne

MHA By-law Revision Alert!

Posted: 12/12/2009 12:00:00 AM

If you live in an association that is working to revise or amend HOA/Condo governing documents, here are some important tips to keep in mind as you review and prepare to vote on those changes. Homeowners, or a committee of homeowners, should review the new wording thoroughly, comparing existing wording to new wording line-by-line. This works best by having old text and new text in different fonts or colors while reviewing the documents.

1. Beware of boiler plate documents that completely replace old documents with new, and perhaps inappropriate, by-laws. MHA recommends that you never vote for totally new by-laws unless every line is explained to you.

2. Beware of language that states the homeowners should pay "all attorney fees actually incurred by the Board of Directors." This wording obligates homeowners to pay for the Board's attorney's fees, as well as their own attorney's fees. Such wording sets up a "no-win" situation for homeowners and could lead to bankruptcy and/or foreclosure. California has addressed this issue with Civil Code 1354 which states "in an action to enforce the governing documents, the prevailing party shall be awarded reasonable attorney's fees and costs."

3.Beware of wording that gives the Board the ability to file a lien for unpaid fines and then foreclose on the property. Wording such as: "the Board shall have the power to impose reasonable fines which shall constitute a lien upon the property and shall be collected in the same manner as any other assessment levied” or “in the event fines are not paid, such fines shall be collectible in the same manner as assessments” should be avoided. Recently, California and Florida have passed legislation to prohibit associations from including fines in a lien and fines may not be characterized, nor treated in the governing documents, as an assessment which becomes a lien. Arizona has passed legislation that an association can file a lien for unpaid fines, but the lien cannot be collected until the property changes ownership.

MHA recommends that before voting for any amendments to governing documents, homeowners carefully examine changes. If you do not understand the implications of the new wording, vote no. Further, beware of a “Directed Proxy” that gives your vote to someone else. You might be voting for a bylaw change when you never intended to. Arizona has already banned proxy voting. This state uses an "absentee ballot." The absentee ballot must set forth each proposed action.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388

Posted:

Darlene,

I could not find a state law which states how a ballot must be worded. Here's a link to the Homeowners assn statutes: www.apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38

When voting on a CCR amendment the preferred method is to ask for a vote on each section being amended. Since you are amending the entire CCRs perhaps the members should vote on each article. At the end of each article insert a "yes" and "no" block. IMO a letter should accompany the ballot thoroughly explaining the importance of this amendment. Also, before the members are asked to vote it may be wise to hold a meeting to explain the amendment. If your bylaws allow proxy voting then a proxy form should also accompany the ballot.

BTW, if your CCRs update also includes rewriting the steps which may be taken to collect delinquent assessments then it makes sense to hold off on taking any steps other than to send notices of delinquency and assessing a late fee.

I agree it may be time for a new attorney. Try to find one who deals with HOAs otherwise you may get one who will not be very helpful

DarleneB2 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Susan,
This is exactly what our problem is. We had to give the lawyer the special meeting minutes stating we had a board meeting to approve the amendment then HE would provide the Correct Ballot since the below wording was not good enough. He never told us anything about him providing this so we went door to door and gave a copy of the new amendments, a voter ballot and weeks later we sat out from Subdivion to collect votes. We only received approx 11, well the old covenants says a quarum of 80% So we didn't meet this. This is what we typed on the Ballot

"Vote on implementation of new CCR's for XXXXXXXXXXX Home Owners Association effective 22 June 2010

Yes______ No______ Lot # or Address_____________________

Yes means you are in favor of implementing them. No means you are not in favor
of implementing them. Note: This Vote won't count unless your dues are
current"

So we went to the lawyer and he said he would give us the abc/123 of exactly what we need to do. (I asked this specifically since he seemed to always say we were 2 steps ahead of him)

So he just email a a Proxy but that was it,,,nothing else.....not Ballot to mail in or in person to vote yes or no. No letter nothing.... so I called him yesterday that he didn't give us what exactly we need before we have the meeting for the vote. We have not had a duly called meeting as you say since noone even cares in our subdivision. Even when myself and the Treasurer went door to door dropping of the ammendments covenants to review, a copy of the budget report, an audit report of where money was used since we kept getting complaints "where the money went" Showed in balance of .ll cents. The Treasurer also included a "Timeline of Arcticle, Bylaws & CCr Revision showing in detail that from 2/5/08-12/31/2009, the costs of the lawyer bills which bottom line was $4688.29.

In defence of the Lawyer the above took longer since the old Treasurer/President was fighting not on same page and old Treasurer didn't even open up mail. We got some old mail from the old Treasurer stating the lawyer would settle for the balance $800 less then what was billed but noone new since the mail was not opened. Frustrating.

OK Back to Reality........We have a New Board/Officers and changes were being made positively.... Except finalizing the amendment.

just so everyone knows there wasn't alot of changes from the old one we had to change the % lower and due a proxy so we can get this passed.

No one showed up for the meeting and no one mailed the ballot back or in person, including the old Treaurer and Secretary!!!!!

So it is clear that noone cares. We even went another step by having a spreadsheet with all the lots, addresses, names so when we dropped it off they signed a sheet they received all of the info. Basically we should of had them sign the voter ballot instead of the spreadsheet since they really didn't care what they were signing.

Again thanks all who have responded and to allow me to vent!!!

DarleneB2 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Susan,
This is exactly what our problem is. We had to give the lawyer the special meeting minutes stating we had a board meeting to approve the amendment then HE would provide the Correct Ballot since the below wording was not good enough. He never told us anything about him providing this so we went door to door and gave a copy of the new amendments, a voter ballot and weeks later we sat out from Subdivion to collect votes. We only received approx 11, well the old covenants says a quarum of 80% So we didn't meet this. This is what we typed on the Ballot

"Vote on implementation of new CCR's for XXXXXXXXXXX Home Owners Association effective 22 June 2010

Yes______ No______ Lot # or Address_____________________

Yes means you are in favor of implementing them. No means you are not in favor
of implementing them. Note: This Vote won't count unless your dues are
current"

So we went to the lawyer and he said he would give us the abc/123 of exactly what we need to do. (I asked this specifically since he seemed to always say we were 2 steps ahead of him)

So he just email a a Proxy but that was it,,,nothing else.....not Ballot to mail in or in person to vote yes or no. No letter nothing.... so I called him yesterday that he didn't give us what exactly we need before we have the meeting for the vote. We have not had a duly called meeting as you say since noone even cares in our subdivision. Even when myself and the Treasurer went door to door dropping of the ammendments covenants to review, a copy of the budget report, an audit report of where money was used since we kept getting complaints "where the money went" Showed in balance of .ll cents. The Treasurer also included a "Timeline of Arcticle, Bylaws & CCr Revision showing in detail that from 2/5/08-12/31/2009, the costs of the lawyer bills which bottom line was $4688.29.

In defence of the Lawyer the above took longer since the old Treasurer/President was fighting not on same page and old Treasurer didn't even open up mail. We got some old mail from the old Treasurer stating the lawyer would settle for the balance $800 less then what was billed but noone new since the mail was not opened. Frustrating.

OK Back to Reality........We have a New Board/Officers and changes were being made positively.... Except finalizing the amendment.

just so everyone knows there wasn't alot of changes from the old one we had to change the % lower and due a proxy so we can get this passed.

No one showed up for the meeting and no one mailed the ballot back or in person, including the old Treaurer and Secretary!!!!!

So it is clear that noone cares. We even went another step by having a spreadsheet with all the lots, addresses, names so when we dropped it off they signed a sheet they received all of the info. Basically we should of had them sign the voter ballot instead of the spreadsheet since they really didn't care what they were signing.

Again thanks all who have responded and to allow me to vent!!!

DarleneB2 (Washington)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Susan,
This is exactly what our problem is. We had to give the lawyer the special meeting minutes stating we had a board meeting to approve the amendment then HE would provide the Correct Ballot since the below wording was not good enough. He never told us anything about him providing this so we went door to door and gave a copy of the new amendments, a voter ballot and weeks later we sat out from Subdivion to collect votes. We only received approx 11, well the old covenants says a quarum of 80% So we didn't meet this. This is what we typed on the Ballot

"Vote on implementation of new CCR's for XXXXXXXXXXX Home Owners Association effective 22 June 2010

Yes______ No______ Lot # or Address_____________________

Yes means you are in favor of implementing them. No means you are not in favor
of implementing them. Note: This Vote won't count unless your dues are
current"

So we went to the lawyer and he said he would give us the abc/123 of exactly what we need to do. (I asked this specifically since he seemed to always say we were 2 steps ahead of him)

So he just email a a Proxy but that was it,,,nothing else.....not Ballot to mail in or in person to vote yes or no. No letter nothing.... so I called him yesterday that he didn't give us what exactly we need before we have the meeting for the vote. We have not had a duly called meeting as you say since noone even cares in our subdivision. Even when myself and the Treasurer went door to door dropping of the ammendments covenants to review, a copy of the budget report, an audit report of where money was used since we kept getting complaints "where the money went" Showed in balance of .ll cents. The Treasurer also included a "Timeline of Arcticle, Bylaws & CCr Revision showing in detail that from 2/5/08-12/31/2009, the costs of the lawyer bills which bottom line was $4688.29.

In defence of the Lawyer the above took longer since the old Treasurer/President was fighting not on same page and old Treasurer didn't even open up mail. We got some old mail from the old Treasurer stating the lawyer would settle for the balance $800 less then what was billed but noone new since the mail was not opened. Frustrating.

OK Back to Reality........We have a New Board/Officers and changes were being made positively.... Except finalizing the amendment.

just so everyone knows there wasn't alot of changes from the old one we had to change the % lower and due a proxy so we can get this passed.

No one showed up for the meeting and no one mailed the ballot back or in person, including the old Treaurer and Secretary!!!!!

So it is clear that noone cares. We even went another step by having a spreadsheet with all the lots, addresses, names so when we dropped it off they signed a sheet they received all of the info. Basically we should of had them sign the voter ballot instead of the spreadsheet since they really didn't care what they were signing.

Again thanks all who have responded and to allow me to vent!!!

JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562

Posted:

Darlene wrote "Basically we should of had them sign the voter ballot instead of the spreadsheet since they really didn't care what they were signing."

This kind of thinking allows bylaws to be changed and can lead to communities being ruined. It is the responsibility of the board to make sure every change is clearly explained so that homeowners can make an informed decision.