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KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:


1) Member has always been late, has quit paying dues owes approx. $2,000 including attorney fees for collections, etc….
2) Old Board pursued collection by notices, then turned over to attorney for collection and foreclosure (last day for member to respond 10/21/10)
3) No response from member/homeowner who is “judgment proof” (attorney’s words)
4) Member/homeowner has been delinquent on mtge/lender started foreclosure once never completed
5) Utility services – electric, water, sewer, trash have all been delinquent and/or have at some time been disconnected.
6) Member has several personal judgments against in excess of $15,000

New board (one of whom hasn’t even read the CCR’s or by-laws) believes the HOA should not foreclose and work with this member/homeowner. Note this has been going on for 3 years with this member/homeowner. The HOA tried to settle when it was at $580.00 and member refused. This person does not work, but can go down to the bar every night (we can see bar from our subdivision) but cannot pay her dues and bills.

I for one am tired of paying for this person to live in the subdivision for free!

How do we the rest of the members – try to convince the board to pursue? Don't they have a fiduciary responsibility to do so??
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
I can only speak from a FL perspective........
1. We would have filed a lien against the property.
2. What do you mean, the lender started foreclosure but never completed. Is the foreclosure still in process? In FL that can take well over 1 year or longer.
DennisT (Ohio)
Posts: 109
Posted:
Yes, the board does have a fiduciary responsibility, but does not mean heading to court for everything. That means running a cost/benefit analysis and making a reasoned decision. Our attorney used to tell us that the board should always foreclose as soon as possible because they had a 90% success rate at getting owners to comply before it went anywhere. Well five years later and they had gone 1 for 7 with us while costing the association over $10,000 in legal fees we could never recover. So we gave up on their "always foreclose" advise and started taking a really hard look at the owner's full situation before deciding. We looked for things like other judgments, delinquent tax liens, etc.

The person is already up to their eyeballs in debt and is probably working "under the table" to get their bar money so on paper they're not going to have anything. Once they get to the point of a sheriff's sale they might even file for bankruptcy and then withdraw that 90% through giving them more years to stay.

If the lender started foreclosure and stopped there's a reason for that. More than likely they realized that the person has no equity in the property and it was going to cost them a huge bundle of cash just to clear the books. If the bank won't touch the guy, what makes you think that a non-profit association would have any luck? If I was in an association that's just getting by (and what association isn't?) I'd be pretty upset if we dumped multiple thousands of dollars at a problem that may not go away for four or more years. Even if you file for foreclosure the lender still gets first dibs on any equity of which there is probably none.

As for making the board pursue, good luck. Collections matters are almost always considered to be attorney/client because they concern potential litigation. There's likely a good reason why they aren't pursuing it at this time but unfortunately since it's a legal matter they probably can't tell everyone why. Definitely frustrating for all involved.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posted:
I forgot to add this question. Has this person filed for bankruptcy? If so, the foreclosure process stops while this is being worked out (at least it does here in FL). This is public information, and your attorney, or even someone savy with your online court records can tell you.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
If this person is judgement proof, that usually means he's low income, (SS, SSI,) so there's just no way to get fines out of him and no court will take a person's house away because of fines. Is he elderly? disabled?

Drop all fines and get a meeting with this guy or his agent. Figure out a budget that he can meet, even if it's 425 per month.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolF on 10/06/2010 2:38 PM
I can only speak from a FL perspective........
1. We would have filed a lien against the property.
2. What do you mean, the lender started foreclosure but never completed. Is the foreclosure still in process? In FL that can take well over 1 year or longer.

Yes, 2 liens have been filed. One for non-payment of the road assessment - we have a private road in the subdivision and the other for collection costs and attorney fees. No this person has not filed for bankruptcy.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenT on 10/06/2010 2:59 PM
Posted By CarolF on 10/06/2010 2:38 PM
I can only speak from a FL perspective........
1. We would have filed a lien against the property.
2. What do you mean, the lender started foreclosure but never completed. Is the foreclosure still in process? In FL that can take well over 1 year or longer.


Yes, 2 liens have been filed. One for non-payment of the road assessment - we have a private road in the subdivision and the other for collection costs and attorney fees. No this person has not filed for bankruptcy.

P.S. The lender started foreclosure and the comment on the foreclosure site was "payment arrangements made".
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 10/06/2010 2:57 PM
If this person is judgement proof, that usually means he's low income, (SS, SSI,) so there's just no way to get fines out of him and no court will take a person's house away because of fines. Is he elderly? disabled?

Drop all fines and get a meeting with this guy or his agent. Figure out a budget that he can meet, even if it's 425 per month.

This person will not talk to anyone and gave a boyfriend a POA to deal with the association. Now the boyfriend is gone (he got tired of it too!) She has left extremely vile messages on the President phone and the association attorneys phone. Not elderly and not disabled - as far as we know. Our subdivsion is only 12 houses so everyone sees everything.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
If this person is judgement proof, that usually means he's low income, (SS, SSI,) so there's just no way to get fines out of him and no court will take a person's house away because of fines.


Interesting...... something to ponder......

Now that the baby boomers are getting older, and just starting to retire, the future of home owners associations would could be very difficult. When most of the population is on SS or SSI and seniors will not care about their credit reports, what will happen to Home Associations?

Having a property in a home owners association will be the kiss of death for young buyers. They will pay all the fees, and the seniors will get all the benefits.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Steve,

I'm a senior and I pay all my bills on time -- always have! Please be careful when posting your remarks not to give the impression that you are talking about everyone in a certain class. Just because a person hits the "senior citizen" age doesn't mean he no longer cares about his credit report or paying his bills. Usually those things are ingrained in a person, either they've always done it or they haven't. I think you will find that a good portion of seniors do pay their bills on time, have good credit, don't use credit cards or if they do they pay the bill off each month and don't have a mortgage.

It's not good to generalize.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Mary, you failed to see my point. Your personal feelings got in the way of putting this issue into perspective and thinking about the future.

Yes, I do think "today's" seniors pay their bills. But that doesn't mean tomorrow's generation of seniors will, especially if they don't have to. Hate to break it to you, but the economy runs around the baby boomers. This could be huge.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Steve,

The boomers are already retiring or starting to. I only missed that generation by a few years. IMO, it's their children who don't want to pay their bills! But that's not something HOAs can do anything about now except to get in the habit of budgeting for bad debts. They can only address the members who aren't paying now.
KarenT (Washington)
Posts: 250
Posted:
To both Steve and Mary - this person is actually 42 years old.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
IMO, it's their children who don't want to pay their bills!


Mary, the baby boomers make up most of the people who are doing strategic defaults. They can pay their bills just fine, but choose to let the bank foreclose because the house has gone down in value and is worth less than what they paid. This has never happened before.

These people, as a generation will be seniors soon enough. They are not the same as other generations. There is no precedent.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posted:
Karen,

Probably the child of a baby boomer! This is the generation who wants everything NOW and doesn't care if they have the money to pay for it or not.

Take whatever steps are available to you to collect the delinquent assessments. If you're able to foreclose to collect fines, so be it. Or what about garnishment of wages?

When people don't want to do anything to help themselves then why should anyone else worry about helping them?

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