JackB9 (Michigan)
Posts: 5
Posts: 5
Posted:
does a amendment to the bylaws need to be recorded with the recorder of deeds office
or would that be sec of state
or would that be sec of state
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amendment to by laws
Started by JackB9 • 15 replies • 3056 views
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MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Jack,
If your CCRs were required to be recorded then any amendments would also be required to be recorded. The recordation is made at the Co. recorder's office of the county in which the HOA is located.
If your CCRs were required to be recorded then any amendments would also be required to be recorded. The recordation is made at the Co. recorder's office of the county in which the HOA is located.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Jack - CCRs need to be recorded. File with county.
Bylaws don't need to be filed with the state unless you change the "Membership" designation. Request a change in Articles of Incorporation. Costs $10 about 4 years ago, probably a little higher.
Bylaws don't need to be filed with the state unless you change the "Membership" designation. Request a change in Articles of Incorporation. Costs $10 about 4 years ago, probably a little higher.
PatH9 (Oregon)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
What if changes were made to the CC&R's 10 years ago but were never recorder with the county?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
Pat H,
If the amendmen was required to be recorded, but wasn't then it would not be legal. IMO, anything stated in the amendment does not apply. Don't the CCRs specify the amendment shall be effective upon recordation? Are you going to tell us the BOD has been operating by this unrecorded amendment for the last 10 years?
If the amendmen was required to be recorded, but wasn't then it would not be legal. IMO, anything stated in the amendment does not apply. Don't the CCRs specify the amendment shall be effective upon recordation? Are you going to tell us the BOD has been operating by this unrecorded amendment for the last 10 years?
CathyS3 (Texas)
Posts: 9
Posts: 9
Posted:
We just changed our by-laws an our lawyer charged $20 - changing ours was well worth it.
TishS (Washington)
Posts: 116
Posts: 116
Posted:
If the membership definition was changed in the bylaws should that not have been done with the Articles of Incorporation and CCR's also which have to be filed with the state and county?
This is a serious question. I have a situation where the HOA claims the changing the bylaws membership definition and filing it with the county overrides what the CCR's say and the Articles? My HOA is a train wreck
This is a serious question. I have a situation where the HOA claims the changing the bylaws membership definition and filing it with the county overrides what the CCR's say and the Articles? My HOA is a train wreck
TishS (Washington)
Posts: 116
Posts: 116
Posted:
If the membership definition was changed in the bylaws should that not have been done with the Articles of Incorporation and CCR's also which have to be filed with the state and county?
This is a serious question. I have a situation where the HOA claims the changing the bylaws membership definition and filing it with the county overrides what the CCR's say and the Articles? My HOA is a train wreck
This is a serious question. I have a situation where the HOA claims the changing the bylaws membership definition and filing it with the county overrides what the CCR's say and the Articles? My HOA is a train wreck
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
The following applies to California and many other states, but in all states the CCR will have more power than the Bylaws. In your case, changing membership types probably already happened when the HOA was turned over by the developer.
Hierarchy of Governing Documents
Common interest developments have a number of documents controlling the development. Not all documents are created equal--some have more authority than others. Although there may be exceptions, the hierarchy of authority is generally as follows:
For property restrictions:
1. State and Federal laws (unless they defer to the CC&Rs)
2. Condominium Plan (for condominiums) or Subdivision Map (for planned developments)
3. Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs)
4. Rules and Regulations
For corporate matters (elections, recalls, meetings, officers and directors, etc):
1. State laws (unless they defer to the bylaws)
2. Articles of Incorporation
3. Bylaws (unless found in the CC&Rs)
4. Election Rules
Conflicts between documents can often be resolved by referring to the hierarchy of authority. However, statutes and case law may also control particular issues. Boards should seek legal counsel whenever they discover a conflict between their documents, or their documents and statutes.
Hierarchy of Governing Documents
Common interest developments have a number of documents controlling the development. Not all documents are created equal--some have more authority than others. Although there may be exceptions, the hierarchy of authority is generally as follows:
For property restrictions:
1. State and Federal laws (unless they defer to the CC&Rs)
2. Condominium Plan (for condominiums) or Subdivision Map (for planned developments)
3. Declaration of Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions (CC&Rs)
4. Rules and Regulations
For corporate matters (elections, recalls, meetings, officers and directors, etc):
1. State laws (unless they defer to the bylaws)
2. Articles of Incorporation
3. Bylaws (unless found in the CC&Rs)
4. Election Rules
Conflicts between documents can often be resolved by referring to the hierarchy of authority. However, statutes and case law may also control particular issues. Boards should seek legal counsel whenever they discover a conflict between their documents, or their documents and statutes.
PatH9 (Oregon)
Posts: 12
Posts: 12
Posted:
Sorry i ahven't gotten back to this one but in answer to Mary1:
The original CC&R's were files with the county in 1968 but were re-written in 1975.
The re-written ines were never filed with the county but have been handed out to owners since 1975.
So are the re-written one valid?
The original CC&R's were files with the county in 1968 but were re-written in 1975.
The re-written ines were never filed with the county but have been handed out to owners since 1975.
So are the re-written one valid?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 388
Posts: 388
Posted:
Pat,
Since the original CCRs were recorded it's safe to say the amendment was also required to be recorded meaning it is NOT valid. Usually the amendment article in the CCRs will state the requirement for the amendment to be recorded.
This could be a real "can of worms" to find out that the CCRs being used for the last 35 years were not valid!!
Since the original CCRs were recorded it's safe to say the amendment was also required to be recorded meaning it is NOT valid. Usually the amendment article in the CCRs will state the requirement for the amendment to be recorded.
This could be a real "can of worms" to find out that the CCRs being used for the last 35 years were not valid!!
JenniferZ1 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posts: 27
Posted:
QUESTION related to this old thread!!!!!
Florida specific; if the a bylaw was changed by a homeowner vote in accordance with CC&Rs/Bylaws BUT never filed with the county, it is my understanding it is NOT valid. BUT, can the Board retroactively go back and file the amendment with the county, thereby making it valid?
The amendment in question was a Board change from 5 to 7 members. Since the homeowner vote 3 years ago to make the change, the Board has been operating with 7 members. The change was never filed.
FYI; the Board wants to return to 5 members due to lack of interest/empty seats.
Florida specific; if the a bylaw was changed by a homeowner vote in accordance with CC&Rs/Bylaws BUT never filed with the county, it is my understanding it is NOT valid. BUT, can the Board retroactively go back and file the amendment with the county, thereby making it valid?
The amendment in question was a Board change from 5 to 7 members. Since the homeowner vote 3 years ago to make the change, the Board has been operating with 7 members. The change was never filed.
FYI; the Board wants to return to 5 members due to lack of interest/empty seats.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
First: Does FL law require that bylaws be filed with your county?
Anyway, Jennifer, might be better to start a new topic given the age of this one.
Anyway, Jennifer, might be better to start a new topic given the age of this one.
JenniferZ1 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posts: 27
Posted:
per our attorney, our bylaws (or maybe CC&Rs) do.
JenniferZ1 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posts: 27
Posted:
Per suggestion, I just posted this as a new topic. Please reply there. Thanks!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JenniferZ1 on 05/21/2013 5:08 PM
Per suggestion, I just posted this as a new topic. Please reply there. Thanks!
Per suggestion, I just posted this as a new topic. Please reply there. Thanks!
That would be this thread:
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/154869/view/topic/Default.aspx
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