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SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
We have begun our budget drafting for 2011 and because delinquent fees continue to increase, we’re increasing them 4%, as well as the late fees and collection cost charged to the owner. As treasurer, I’m also looking at what’s been done on our delinquent accounts this year and then we will meet with our attorneys regarding collection strategies for next year.

What I’d like from you good folks are your comments and suggestions regarding best practices for delinquency collection. For the most part, everyone knows the basics: establish a collection policy, advise all the homeowners of the policy and enforce it quickly and fairly. What I’m wondering about are best practices after the late notices haven’t worked and it’s off to the attorneys. Our efforts have ranged from lawsuits to foreclosure and some methods seem to be more effective than others. Does your association rely mostly on lawsuits, liens or go for the jungular in a foreclosure?

I’m particularly concerned about when liens should be filed so the Association has the best chance at collecting money. Lately, it seems we’ve imposed them, only to have them wiped out in a sheriff’s sale and I’m wondering if we should even bother with that expense. We’ve also had homeowners disappear completely, or so it seems, and we end up having to write that off too – if anyone has suggestions on how to best search for these AWOL homeowners, that would also be gratefully appreciated. In reading around this site and other places, I’ve seen strategies like reverse foreclosures, blanket receiverships and selling the liens to a lien collection service bandied about – has your HOA tried one or more of these and were they effective for you? If you’re an Indiana HOA I’d really like to see what you have to say.

I know there will be always be some accounts that we’ll just have to write off, but after writing off a huge chunk of money at last week’s meeting, I’m thinking what we’ve been doing isn’t working anymore and we can’t continue to pay megabucks in legal fees, so I want to get the biggest bang as possible.

In case you’re wondering, Indiana doesn’t have a super lien law, so there’s not much we can do right now to compel the mortgage companies to pay when they foreclose.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I am well aware of the recession and we've said to people over and over that the Board is willing to negotiate payment plans - we'd rather do that than spend limited funds on legal fees and collections. And some of these homeowners HAVE come forward and explained their situation, even though it IS embarassing and scary to admit financial hardship to a bill collector.

But what do you do about the folks who come up with every stall tactic available so they won't pay? Cutting expenses is appropriate, but at some point even that doesn't work and the homeowners who are paying (and this isn't a wealthy community) end up subsidizing those who don't. Is that fair? Everyone's having trouble in this economy, but some of the people who aren't paying are also the ones who yell about why the Board doesn't do this or that. The last time I checked, no one works for free and the cost of everything is going up.

And our community is terribly underfunded and has been for some time. Previous boards had the same problems and were reluctant to increase fees because they feared it would make matters worse. However, we no longer have that option - if somthing doesnt' happen, we're going to be looking at special assessments - and you know how popular that is.

I'm glad you can go to your neighbors and have a civil face to face about delinquencies - however in my community, we have a number of people living offsite and frankly there are a few on and offsite who won't hesistate to tell us where to go and what to do when we get there if we ask why they aren't paying fees? Got any suggestions on on how to deal with people with THAT mindset in a society where folks don't hesistate to pull out some sort of weapon?


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LoriL1 (Florida)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Sheila,

I agree with you 100%. I would NEVER approach my neighbors regarding their financial situation. Everyone is living in the same recession and many struggle, but still make their payments!

Unfortunately, our assn. is in a similar situation and have tried everything from the friendly "oops...did you forget your payment" letter, numerous late notices, to liens. The liens aren't very effective because if they're paying their mortgage like many of our homeowners are, the lien is just a piece of paper until they try to sell. As much as we didn't want to, but had to, we have begun foreclosure actions on a few. Amazingly, they suddenly responded to our attorneys and made payment arrangements. What they apparently didn't realize was that by waiting until legal action was taken, they now also owe the attorney fees. If only they had worked with us when we offered them a payment plan, all of that could have been avoided.

I wouldn't say this is a best practice, it's just what we've had to do. Good luck!

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820
Posted:
How I have done it:
a nice letter, reminding the owner of the dues, obligations, need for payment, responsibilities, etc.. give the owner a reminder/chance to contact the board, arrange payment, etc. explain the next steps, process, and be nice.

a follow up letter with a final notice chance: pay up, contact board or face X, Y and Z penalty. (this could be fines, late fees, or a lien, with penalty payments tacked on for legal and filing fees, etc.). reiterate the need to contact the board, set up a payment plan, contact the board, etc..

A letter letting the owner know that XY and Z penalty have been implemented, and what they can do to abate the situation now that these steps have been taken.

If possible, i slide in a personal conversation with the owner between letter one and two. However, if the owner is unreachable, has done this every year, etc., i might not extend too much effort to make a personal outreach "neighbor to neighbor".

a lot of times, first and second letters were enough. sometimes, we had to lien.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Far too many people equate a non-profit corporation with a charity and are willing to use its funds as one. It is not! And good excuse or not the people not paying their fair share are taking from those that pay. What happens when you have to raise assessments to cover the deadbeats, er excuse me the downtrodden members whose only "crime" is trying to live beyond their means? Maybe I'm just heartless but when I see the extra car or two disappear along with the 70" home entertainment center because they've sold or pawned them to pay their bills, then I'll feel sorry for them. Oh, yeah while I'm on my soapbox; since when did it become a crime to work a part-time job to cover your debts? For many years I worked a full time job, managed a convenient store on the weekends and still volunteered on the local life squad.

You know, come to think of it there is no law that I know of to stop a concerned neighbor from reaching into their wallet and ponying up a few bucks VOLUNTARILY and helping their neighbor out. I'll bet if said same concerned neighbor would go around and explain to the other neighbors that Joe Blow couldn't pay; that they too would voluntarily give to help them out. It happens, when a homeowner here was injured in an industrial accident, we all kicked in some cash to cover his assessments until he started receiving compensation. To this day I don't think he and his family know who paid, we just sent a receipt each month marked paid.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Well said, Glen.

Our board does all the things Brian mentioned, except having a one-on-one with the member unless the member asks for it. Frankly I don't know why some people think it's necessary for the board to "be neighborly" and personally speak to the delinquent owner to find out why they aren't paying their assessment. Why doesn't the delinquent owner contact the board? Isn't it their responsibility to do that? Why do some people want to put the monkey on the backs of the board members? When you are experiencing financial difficulties and cannot pay your bills isn't it time to contact your creditors and let them know what's going on? Your obligation to pay your HOA assessment is no different than any other financial obligation you have. That, I think, seems to be the fact that too many people don't understand. I always like to advise people that they should give their HOA assessment the same importance as their mortgage payment -- non payment of either can result in foreclosure. My BOD has not gone the foreclosure route and a delinquent member is giving plenty of warning b/4 their account is turned over to our attorney for collection. We get a very detailed report from our attorney each month outlining exactly what steps are being taken to collect and showing the results of a credit check that is performed on each account she is handling. You would be amazed to learn that many of the delinquent members are current on their mortgage, line of credit and credit cards; their only outstanding debt is the HOA assessment. And some think the BOD should be concerned about visiting these people to find out why they aren't paying. I don't think so! BTW, our delinquency rate is between 1 % 2%!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your comments!

That includes you, SnakeP - as you might guess, we will have to agree to disagree on some issues, as I concur with MaryA1, LoriL1 and GlenL. The Board isn’t made up of mind readers – people have to tell us what’s going on, otherwise we can’t help. And when the roof over my head is at risk, I would think that people would wake up and stop pretending that the bills and the Association will disappear. Contrary to what you may think, we’re not made of stone – we do have homeowners who’ve had financial difficulties, said so and we’ve worked with them and will continue to do so. My beef is with the folks who say and do absolutely nothing, and sometimes that includes not responding to the attorneys.

You say you and your wife have spoken to homeowners who’ve explained their situation – good, but what comes after that? What sort of terms do you set for payment plans – or do you say “ok, well, pay whenever you can?” If that works for you, fine, but I live in a townhouse community and we don’t have the luxury of saying that because the Association pays for services that benefit everyone – if we don’t cut someone’s small lawn because they didn’t pay, not only will we get in trouble with the health department for high weeds, but the people next door who ARE paying in full and on time won’t appreciate living next to a forest.

I know some methods work better than others, and wanted to see what others seem to find most effective, so I’m grateful for BrianB and Mary’s comments. I will take a look at the letters our property manager sends out – perhaps they are too benign. I will push our attorneys to run credit reports on some of these people so we’ll know what we’re working with – if everyone’s getting paid but us, I have a big problem with that, but if the report shows liens and repossessions all over the place, that may give us an idea as to how likely we’ll get anything and maybe we’ll save some legal fees on taking action that’s likely doomed from the start.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LindaH12 (Arizona)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I agree that some consideration should be given for people with extenuating if they request it but we have someone living in our community who has never paid her HOA dues in almost four years. The association put a lien on her property in 2008 and we have just sent her to collections again. I just took over as President of our association a couple of months ago and am unsure how to proceed. We've already spent over $2000 in legal fees but this woman doesn't seen to exist on paper. Any suggestions?
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Snake,

I think the BOD may be in violation of the CCRs if they start allowing delinquent members to do volunteer work in lieu of paying their assessments. Most, if not all, CCRs state that assessments are due from each member and give no allowance for waiving them.

If meeting face to face with a delinquent member works for you, then by all means go for it. This may work in a small community where everyone knows everyone. But in an HOA as large as mine, 1,702 members, I doubt it would work. Our members are given ample time to pay their delinquency before their case is turned over to our attorney for collection. And, yes, we do file liens whenever required. BTW, our delinquency rate is between 1-2%. IMO, when a person falls on hard times and finds it difficult to meet their financial obligations it's up to them to notify their creditors to try to work something out. It isn't up to the creditor to contact that person for a face-to-face meeting. Your HOA assessment is no different than any other financial obligation. When you have your face-to-face meeting, what is the reason given for having not contacted the BOD to inform them of the reason for not paying? You would be surprised at how many of our delinquent members are current on all their other financial obligations; the only thing they aren't paying is the HOA assessment. Sorry but I can't garner any sympathy for someone like that!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Snake other than making you feel good that there is a reason (at least in your mind) that these people chose not to pay their HOA assessments how much money has your Kumbaya policy actually generated for the HOA? Are your delinquencies still running at 20% or are the coffers now overflowing?

While it depends on the amount of services and amenities the HOA provides affects the assessment amount with some of the high end HOA's costing thousands a year. The average HOA assessment reported here in this forum is usually between $200 - $350 a year - less than a dollar a day. So when they sing their tale of woe keep in mind how hard it is to save a dollar a day.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
You may not be looking at this from the right angle. In fact our HoA did this in the past.

A Board can hire and fire. Currently we are finding this should entail nothing more than hiring these people as temporary contractors, issueing them a misc-1099 for tax purposes, and apply their compensation to their dues. We are still hashing out any other potential problems with insurance, legal, etc.

The old Board took your approach of collections, wage garnishment, court, attorneys, etc. and it was a miserably failure. You can not bleed a turnip.

Like I said before, it is time to start thinking outside the box.

Snake ... good idea!!! How many HOA's spend alot of money for mowing grass, etc. This could be a win ... win situation. Also, comes down to neighbors helping neighbors in tough situations. It can be good to think outside the box.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Yep Snake I'm a heartless and cruel Bastard with a capital B. A few years ago a woman came to the Board and explained she could no longer pay her monthly condo fees because of medical expenses due to terminal cancer but she was in the process of selling her unit and would pay in full when it sold. Let me emphasize the important part of that sentence she came to the Board. We told her we understood but would have to put a lien on the unit to protect the HOA, she understood it wasn't personal but we had duty to the HOA. We waived all late fees, that is something the BOD has the power to do and when she sold we collected what was due. This happened because and I can't say it too much SHE CAME TO US, if she had just ignored the problem hoping it would go away or thinking she would let her heirs deal with it, it would have been another matter entirely.

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't work with the homeowners you've contacted and I know the economy is in rough shape but you have a duty to all of the homeowners and expecting the ones with a job to pick up the slack of the ones not working is wrong on so many levels. I remember back when this forum first started there were several posts of people who wanted to forgive a years assessment because a owner's family member had been killed in the war. They were willing to use the HOA's money to make themselves feel good, yet they weren't willing to dip into their own pocket.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LoriL1 (Florida)
Posts: 78
Posted:
Snake…we DO get it! In YOUR community, the reason people aren’t paying their dues is because they’ve all lost their jobs, had their hours reduced or have medical problems. What YOU don’t seem to get is that those circumstances don’t apply to all homeowners in every community, so different approaches are taken. As far as having a hard-ass attitude (your words), yes sir, especially when we have homeowners who have rent-paying tenants and the homeowner is not paying the monthly assessments! In Florida a law just went into effect that allows us to collect the rent from the tenant to pay for the homeowner’s obligation to the assn. Hallelujah! It works. We even had one homeowner pay his $2000.00 debt in full rather than have his tenants pay their rent to the assn. The point here is that if they could pay in full, why didn’t they pay the monthly amount, which would have been less of a financial hardship!

What we’re doing works for our community and is because of our responsibility to ALL the homeowners in the community, not just the ones that don’t pay their dues.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Snake,

You didn't explain how the BOD was going to handle paying the homeowners who would be working for he assn in exchange for not paying their assessment. The way you would handle this would be OK. Many assn do not do it that way! The best way to handle this is to issue them a check for work performed then have them sign the check over to the HOA for payment of assessments. Otherwise the bookkeeper would have to prepare a Journal adjusting entry to show that the assessment was paid; i.e. debit grounds maint and credit assessment income.

True, you cannot get blood from a turnip, which is why my BOD has a budget line item for "bad debts" for those cases that are uncollectible.

As I said, whatever works for your assn, but just because it works for yours doesn't mean it would work for mine. The number of delinquent members doesn't matter, what matters is knocking on a stranger's door and asking them why they aren't paying their assessment. What would your attitude be if a stranger knocked on your door and asked why you aren't paying your water bill? In my former assn there was a member who was a police officer and had a habit of opening her door with her service revolver pointed at the person at the door. How would a greeting like that affect you?

Maybe it's time for the delinquent members to start "thinking outside the box" by letting the BOD know about their financial hardship instead of just not paying and letting you contact them to find out why!! Everyone has a responsibility; the BOD's is to collect the assessments, the members' is to pay them. The board does not have a responsibility, obligation or duty to find out why a member isn't paying.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
reason people aren’t paying their dues is because they’ve all lost their jobs, had their hours reduced or have medical problems.


"Why" a homeowner is not paying their bills means very little to me. They either owe money or they cant afford to live here and need to leave. If they get foreclosed on, so be it. They will simply find another place to live in which they can afford. Life goes on.

I'm not going to get in financial trouble by paying special assessments just because people don't pay their dues. They are not taking me down with them.

We will continue to charge late fees, liens, foreclose, etc, to PROTECT the other homeowners, NOT to punish people who cant pay.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
The old Board took your approach of collections, wage garnishment, court, attorneys, etc. and it was a miserably failure. You can not bleed a turnip.


A court judgment is good for 10 years and you can renew it for another 10 years. It would be rare that a person would not have a job to garnish wages or any assets in the next 20 years.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Boy, this thread really got hopping while I was gone – thanks once again for all your comments. A few of mine, for what they’re worth:

SnakeP – I do understand what you’re saying about treating people as neighbors (really!), but I notice you really didn’t answer Mary’s question as to why homeowners in your community don’t seem to respond when they get late notices. You said your old board did things similar to what mine is doing, but it would appear your homeowners STILL continue to keep their mouth shut when they run into problems, even though there’s a new board. And you and your wife have to take time out of your schedule to go and talk to whomever about what they haven’t paid when they could have picked up the phone and explained what was happening to you or your property manager (if you have one). Does losing one’s job mean you can’t get on the phone? The lady in the hospital – it’s one thing if she’s there now, but you said letters, meaning she got more than one – why not respond to the first letter or at least make the call after being released?

And while one should remember these are one’s neighbors, how is sending late notices and filing liens any different from what the mortgage company, gas company, Sears and every other creditor out there does when their customers don’t pay? We know that bad debt incurred by, say, a grocery store ultimately gets passed on to paying customers in the form of higher food prices. No one in my community is rich and next year’s fee increase won’t be easy to live with because EVERYTHING’S going up In the meantime, everyone expects the grass to be cut, the gutters cleaned and the snow plowed. In my community, we don’t plow until at least three inches have fallen – because we have to stretch the dollars of the folks who do pay. Why should they risk being late for work or their safety because someone didn’t pay (so we could plow at 2 inches - this IS the Midwest, after all) or have the decency to explain why?
Janet, your idea about homeowners doing some of the maintenance work around the community isn’t necessarily bad, but I’d worry about liability if someone got hurt (getting injured while cutting grass? It CAN happen).

Back to my original question – are there some tactics that seem to be working better than others? I told you about my concerns with the liens and while we don’t plan to stop using them, maybe there are other things we should consider. I’ve heard of lien collection services – has anyone tried them? Does anyone send their accounts to a collection agency to see what they can do before handing them off to an attorney? What type of terms do you have on your payment plans? Etc., Etc.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JeffP6 (Florida)
Posts: 91
Posted:
We've tried alot - the normal late notice after 30 days / follow up notice / lein. For us the process tends to stop right about there. The issue we have is that many of our homeowners are overseas and they use their homes here as STR. Well once they stop paying and walk away from a home there is little we can do but wait for the home to sell or the bank to foreclose.

One thing that has helped us tremendously this last year - We instituted a new electronic key system at our pool. While for some of the year this doesnt have much in the use as a persuasive force. When it gets busy with rentals here in FL a homeowner doesnt like getting a call from a renter asking why they cant get into the pool.

See when a homeowner is delinquent we lock out their pool key as well as remove their ability to vote. No payment means you lose rights as a homeowner - and these are backed up by FL state law.

Our delinquencies were down considerably this year from last.
RN (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Our HOA has been going for the jugular and foreclosing on homes. Then, we rent them until the banks take over. It's been a good strategy for us. So, if a homeowner owed us 10,000 and we rent the home for 2,000/mth (we keep it a little below market value because the bank can foreclose on it, while the tenant is still in there) in approx seven months we've made enough to pay the back dues (it takes a little longer because we do put $$ out of our pockets to get the house ready, pay a mgmt. co, etc). Then, when the bank takes it back they are still responsible for a year past dues which, in most cases, will satisfy the legal fees.

We files our liens immediately. When the homeowner is sent a 45 day demand letter, on the 46th day the lien is placed, if the homeowner doesn't pay up.

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